Fasting Space

Today we are diving in on this question.

Do you ever struggle with trying to practice fasting?

Refrain from eating for a period of time,
even if it's just a snack?

When people around you are eating, fasting

when everyone around you is eating can be very difficult.

Not something you ever have to do.

Of course, fasting, not something you have to do,
but if it's something that you're called to do,

you want to do,
it doesn't mean that it automatically makes it easy.

And one of the most difficult things
is that we can experience a lot of food, peer pressure.

And when we are living as we are in a consumption culture

where having energy coming into the body,
this is just the baseline, it's the assumption.

Even sometimes people be offended if you're not doing it okay.

And this can come up in many different types of situations.

I'd be happy to hear your perspective when I say that.

Are there specific situations that come up
that are a struggle or a difficulty for you, something

maybe that you're working on overcoming,
or something that you have made it through in the past?

Here's some of the top things that I've experienced.

You know, I can kind of break these down for me.

Like inside of the house
or outside of the house, Outside of the house.

Maybe it is some type of social engagement.

we're going to a work event,
a party, even just heading out with friends, right?

Food is how we connect with people.

It can also be like some type of coping mechanism, right?

I know for me, if I'm in a place like I go to a conference,
I go to a place I don't know a lot of people.

It's like there's a buffet of stuff.

It's like it's easier to go grab something, look like,
oh, I'm eating something than it is.

To actually engage
and talk to people is like helps with the anxiety a little bit.

And so certainly I'm thinking of an experience
even last summer where it was like

I ate like five plates of food that I didn't even really want,
but I was just kind of,

you know, it was kind of anxiety driven.

Okay.

So things like that we can talk about. Absolutely.

And then we bring it into, you know, our own house,

cooking food for families, like we want to be fasting in a space,

but then family one wants to eat or kids got to eat.

And so we're making food.

And, you know, we can spend a lot of time
and we do talking about, okay,

creating our food environment, our perfect fasting environment.

And then that can all be blown up when it's like we got to be like

chopping the stuff up and cooking it and serving it and seeing it,

and it's like, and you want to try it and taste it.

And so this can be a definite struggle,

something we want to lean into for sure.

Pat is here.

Good morning. Hello.

Welcome to you. Happy Monday.

Here we are.

Okay I think you know
let me know what you think in the chat in the comments.

What's a bigger struggle?

Fasting outside of the house when other people are eating,

you know, at an event or a thing, or fasting in the house
if other people Maybe

as I'm thinking about it, for my own personal self,
you know, it can depend.

That's what I can say.

My I've done a lot of fasting,
you know, I've tried out so many things.

My my family is kind about it, especially my kids.

You know, they'll give me a little.

Jovial ribbing about it, but, I'm fortunate.

Nobody's like, you know, really opposed to me doing it at home.

You know?

Nobody give me a hard time.

I work with so many clients where that's not the case,

where one partner, for example, is really interested in fasting,

but the other, you know, finds it offensive, even.

That is something that takes a lot of trouble.

And I know people have, you know, brought that up.

Quite a lot.

How do we deal with the social dynamics, within a house, okay.

With other people that we are trying to go out with.

And when we think about relationships within the house,
maybe it's just the relationship with the kitchen.

We said that the other day
when we were talking about the environment.

Fasting with a kitchen within a mile.

Yeah.

I'm going to give you I will give you all of my best thoughts,
and then I will supplement those

with some thoughts from Atomic Habits because, read on

to chapter eight over the last couple of days, in

that book, they're giving us a lot of thoughts
about this type of thing.

Social dynamics, social pressure.

Can the power to conform in so many different ways

of very powerful force Worthy of a lot of our time and thinking?

I started thinking about this topic last week

because, as I said,
I went and gave a talk on health and flourishing.

I loved that word at a nursing conference and.

As I think I said last week,
I like to be fasting when I'm giving a talk.

If I'm giving, getting up in front of tons of people, you know,
I've got to overcome being nervous about doing that anyway.

And then it's like, I just feel better, I think more clearly,
I don't have to worry.

Oh, did something subtle, you know, wrong.

It's just everything is is dialed in as I can make
And then the spirit of it, you know,

if I'm talking about fasting, it just feels.

It feels right to be practicing it out of any time.

I could be practicing it.

If I'm like, talking to people about it,
it just feels like the energy really feels in line.

So I said, I'm giving my talk at 130 in the afternoon.

I say, it's just going to be a fasting day.

I like to do that.

Know from time to time, take a whole day and clear, clear it out.

Get that at effect running, you know.

So I dial in on that fasting in the morning.

No problem.

That's most of my routine that I try to be in.

Get to this lunch. Then it's a, you know, a catered lunch.

And so all this lunch and you're in a room is 150 people

or whatever it was, you know, everybody eating.

And I got to thinking about all the times
that this can be a struggle.

I thought we should dial.

Dial?

In my experience, I was

I really didn't have trouble with it this time.

Like I said, other times I really do.

But this time I really was feeling good about it.

And so I was thinking about strategies.

Here are some strategies
to bring in, especially to this other side.

Out of the house, out doing something.

And then we bring it
in, you know, to more of the family dynamics of people want.

The first thing I was thinking about,
which is a great strategy for,

you know, overcoming so many things.

I just started thinking about how interesting it was,

and I was trying to practice some gratitude and just appreciation.

I was like, I am sitting here in this space, hundreds of people,

you know, everybody eating, everybody doing this.

And look at,
look at this, you know, and I was telling myself, you know,

affirmations like, you are a strong person
and look how okay you are and you are doing this.

And I was feeling I was actually feeling really good about it.

And I think, you know, I've been trying to be more intentional.

This discussion that we are having in this program helping me say,

like, do we show kindness to ourselves
and do we show love and appreciation?

You know, this is something I struggle with as much as anybody.

And so I was just giving myself my own pep talk with it.

I was like, you got this and you're going to feel better for this.

And this is, really actually a wonderful thing to be doing.

It's a gift for yourself. And it was.

And so using a strategy like that,
like just really being dialed in on what you want

and what you are trying to do
and what the experience has been, I should have loaded it up here.

You know, I've got a picture of just one guy

standing against the crowd, everybody walking in a direction, and,

just saying that the crowd has a thing, you know, it was saying,
you know, I don't know.

There's different variations.

I think the one I have, it says something like,
You still think that you're right or something like this.

And the guy is basically like, yeah, yeah,

you know, that's a challenge.

Oh, yes, a challenge when I am the primary food
prepare for most family events.

It's the it really is the challenge.

And let's spend some good time thinking about it.

I think this is a situation that so many people are in.

Is. you want to make the best food and it's right there.

And then also. Right, this is how we connect with people.

Sharing a meal with people is such a beautiful thing,
and it's not something

that I want to create any perspective on
that it's a bad thing to do.

I mean, it's a good thing to do.

Cook good food and enjoy it with people we care about
is just one of the best things in life.

And so there's got to be balance to it.

Absolutely.

There has to be balance to it.

The way a lot of these conversations have gone.

I have a conversation like this with people a lot

because it is such a routine struggle.

One of the things that comes up is that people.

I have seen feel guilty about it.

or, you know, I run into people like that or we feel,
is this setting a bad example to kids?

This is something people struggle with or say,
don't kids need to be eating?

And then if I am not eating
and this is an area to to really think about,

because sometimes, there's like a surface layer
and there's a deeper layer about how we feel.

And sometimes there's an emotion underpinning it.

Like I was seeing some.

Some things with that where I was angry and then I was like,

well, underneath it there are other emotions like sadness and fear

and different things, so dig into it.

How do you feel about your relationship with food, relationships
with other people, their relationships with food?

You know, all this is in there.

And if for anyone who is experiencing,

maybe you're not experiencing this and this is fine, but,
you know, people can come at it from a lot of different ways.

I think it's actually really healthy thing
in the midst of a consumption

culture, in the midst of a population where over

time, a large majority of people are developing

profound struggles
with metabolism and health and weight and blood sugar, diabetes,

all these things to actually have role models in a house

who are able to say no, you know, at least some of the time,

I think is actually profoundly positive.

And to to teach people that there can be limits to things

and that we are not stuck in cycles of consumption,
that people don't have to be ruled by hunger.

And that as we think about how we create patterns of health
going forward,

I care very much like just
you think of the, Struggles and situations

that even so many kids are having now with early onset

diabetes and weight problems in very, very young children.

And, you know, I'm not a pediatrician.

I don't have perspectives on medicine for kids.

I just have perspectives of interacting with families

mainly, who fast for religious reasons,

specifically some Hindu and Buddhist families that I know

who start their kids on religious fasting around age 12.

I've interacted with kids who've been fasting since they were 12

who are lean and strong and active and healthy.

And this is a very fascinating to me.

And so I think there's a huge space for these concepts
to help kids to.

And from my perspective, since I'm not I'm not like a kid person.

I'm not giving any medical advice to dolts either. Right.

We're just exploring thoughts.

See all the disclaimers.

But, You know,
I think is something broader that we can have as a discussion.

And this is where I think to bring it into to model balance,
because it's important to share healthy food with people.

And it's important also to see role models

in people who are maybe at a place
that they're not completely happy about

in, in their health journey
to make powerful decisions, to move in a different direction.

Right.

And to see that, you know, because as much as we don't want to say,
oh, maybe people

within our sphere of influence are going to head into
a difficult place is very hard.

You know, I've been in that place.

I gained a lot of weight, like I said, and then hard to get out of.

It really takes some work and effort over a long period of time

to, to get into a better place.

And then so to help model that,
I just think is incredible for people.

One of the stories in the book, Atomic Habits,
that I was reading in here.

Was saying that the probability that someone gains weight
if their friend gains weight

is actually really high, like it's
it's like a 65% chance or something.

But then it goes the other way.

If people have a close contact who lose weight,
all of a sudden, their circle of influence, friends

and family members like the probability,
the potential that people around them lose weight goes up.

And so it's something this is part of our environment,
but we're bringing it big time

into our relationships and the social environment

that what is happening in the lives of those around

us, just kind of it all kind of flows together. Right.

And so here we're getting right into the middle
of one of the most important key things cooking,

you know, key meals for people in the house and how much food

and how many times, you know, and these are deeply personal things.

So as I'm reflecting on all these things, the
the thing that I have always tried to share with people

is, is balance and balance on many frames.

We have many different types of things to balance, from food

and fasting to relationships and.

Interpersonal dynamics and expectations,
habits, patterns, the history of all these things.

Kind of all in the mix of how we move forward.

You know, it can just, you know,
some people have just appreciated, you know, I just mentioned

kind of in passing that I've had these, you know,
when I'm talking about eating

and weight issues
with hundreds and hundreds of people for many years, and people

sometimes are fascinated just to hear and just to realize, oh,

there's like families and cultures and places that are like

just doing things totally differently and,

and in many cases not experiencing a lot of these health problems.

That just has solidified for me
that so many of these problems are cultural.

You know, we have a culture that is not supporting us. The line

I think the first line of underlined for this section said

James Clear, says whatever habits are normal in your culture

are among the most attractive behaviors you'll find.

This is in the section where he's talking about,

okay, we've identified things that we want to change.

We're trying to make the things
we want to do as attractive as possible.

He goes through a whole series in here saying like,
think of all the marketing and packaging and ways

food are produced to make them like hyper attractive like that,

the processing of food just, you know, into these products

makes it seem more attractive than natural sort of foods
because it's

shiny and crunchy or, you know, whatever, you know.

But then he's diving into this place under a section,
the seductive pole of social norms.

See if some of this gives some perspective to these situations

that we have friends, family, social environments, he says.

Humans are heard animals.

We want to fit in, to bond with other people,

earn respect and approval of peers.

Such inclinations are essential to our survival.

And then they talk about how, like, if in the past we were tribal,
we lived in a tribe.

And if you get kicked out of the tribe, like you probably just die,
you know?

So like, somehow
hardwired in here is like it can feel very threatening

if we are not conforming into the ways of the tribe,

like some sort of alarm centers going deep off in there,

like we gotta you might might want to rethink that, you know?

Especially in our little tribe then, right in the family,
a cooking food for people is like, you know,

oh, that's what I was trying to finish that thought balance
at what I would say,

just to give you a, you know, another avenue.

Like, it doesn't have to be all the time.

So many times people approach fasting like it's a very,
very rigid process, like, oh, I'm an old person now.

I just eat one meal a day all the time, you know?

Okay. Or it's like people say, I eat at this time.

I eat at that time.

Like I want people to have, like, a line it up.

If if you're going to do a nomad, try to put that meal

at the most important time where you can connect with people on it.

But sometimes you say, well,
what if I wanted to open up that space?

What if I wanted to do a whole day of fasting?

Like, what if I'm doing alternate daily fasting or something like

having some balance with it and just sharing with people?

Hey, I'm trying to do something really powerful, my health.

Would you support me in it and then be open to, you know,

it's like my kids tell plenty of jokes about dad doing a fasting.

It's like, but, you know, really, it was a loving thing
and we had fun with it and like, use it.

And so, you know, a lot of times we can be very,

of course, sensitive to, you know,
what do other people think of what we are doing?

Okay.

So being very thoughtful to ourselves,
being really sure of what we are doing, not taking ourselves too

seriously, being okay if someone's making a little joke, okay,

it's people maybe reflecting about their process.

We can project a lot of things of other people
onto ourselves, things that we might feel

as judgment or insecurity
coming from other people might just be getting

into some deep space in our own place

and then bringing a balance to it, say, hey,
sometimes I'm going to be doing this.

But then when we're having the meal,
what if we're going every other?

Then can we really dive in

and deeply appreciate it and deeply connect to it?

And and that would be another way to bring balance to it.

Says here we don't choose our earliest habits.

We imitate them.

We follow the script handed down by family and friends

church, school, community, society,

like all of these institutions and structures,
that we absorb them as we grow up, as a part

of why it's hard to change
then we're in the middle of it in the family, you know, dynamic.

But then we say, can we change?

You know, does fasting give us the opportunity to show
some of these patterns?

Can constant consumption,
all these things showing us that there is a potential of changing,

and especially as we learn to flow through it in a way
that feels better, the supporting health, like if you're really

on this type of process, you say,
no, this is something that really is bringing

joy and positivity to my life,
is taking the pressure off in so many ways,

and am I seeing that it is a pathway that can lead to success,
then that is something that can be shared.

Okay?

We can create our our own culture here.

He had this quote I highlighted from a French

philosopher, Miguel de Montano,

the customs and practices of life in society sweep us along.

You ever feel like that?

Just being swept up and swept along?

Here's an opportunity to create something

new, different way of being.

That's what we are trying to.

Say in this space.

A little different way of being in the home,

out of the home, wherever we are encountering this issue.

One of the most effective things you can do,
he says, to build better habits

is to join a culture
where your desired behavior is the normal behavior.

Surround yourself with people who have the habits
you want to have yourself, and you can rise up together.

This is a lot of what I think about,
you know, a program like this, things

that we're trying to do, create a space
where people can come together and say, you know what?

This is something I value.

This is something that is important to me.

You know, if you are the only person in a room
who is trying to practice fast and you have a lot of cards

stacked against you, and, you know, you realize some of the things

that this is sharing about how

social, tribal and conformist you know, are thinking

can be for good reasons,
you know, and to push against that, there's just another element

when we have habits and patterns,
and then it's reinforced by culture.

I'm thinking more about this, thought about like,
if we can feel judgment from people

just thinking about that, how much judgment do we have ourselves?

I think a lot of times
the thing that we fear that other people are thinking

about us is actually a projection.

And so the next time, if you're trying to do this essay,
maybe you don't have to do it.

You can just think about it.

This is a pattern I use a lot.

If you're in a spot. That is really a struggle.

I like the analogy walking along the riverbank,

like the path
you got to ford the stream, but you're like, how deep is it?

We don't know.

We can think about it. We can assess.

This would be definitely a space.

We say, I'm interested in expanding my fasting practice

or process, but like, here is a river across the path.

We can spend some time looking for the narrowest part.

You know, the
or maybe the the shallowest part, you know, we can assess.

So you might be thinking in a space like, oh, look at this.

I think in my heart of hearts it might really feel good
to be fasting now, but I don't know if I'm up for it.

This is fine. See?

Never any pressure, but you can think about the experience
as you're going through, like, oh, here's the opportunities.

Like I'm cooking things.

Normally I might be, you know, snitch a little bit.

This is my practice, right?

I'm cooking something.

I always want to taste it.

You know, I was like, I was like, I'm.

That's a skill I want to build.

Okay,
so maybe you could just start at a simple place like that as you're

cooking the food, say,
can I just because then nobody's going to care, right? No.

But the big picture is nobody really cares that much anyway.

Most people just care about themselves and their process.

Maybe they hit people with some comments.

It's more about themselves and someone else.

But here's we're trying to take,
you know, the atomic habits breaking into the smallest steps.

Can you make it through the food prep,
you know, without eating during that point?

You know,
that would be like many little bits of fasting, just another five,

ten, 20 minutes where we're flowing through a space

without eating, you know, that's real, that's something to do.

And then think of the practice that you're doing in that.

Like if you're cooking that as like, oh,

like food is here, but we're not eating it.

You see what I'm saying?

Like, that is like a lot of practice to do that.

And so I like that as a, as a place to start, you know,
how do you feel about it

if you can make it through the whole food
prep and do it, get the food there

and then we're at the meal.

Okay. Beautiful.

Now what I will tell you, it's perfectly acceptable
to get to a meal,

have a glass of water, have a coffee, have a tea.

Especially if it's dinner, you know, which is the most social meal?

Having an herbal tea.

Something really nice.

There's something also that can be shared.

You know, herbal tea, warm.

It's like comfort food for fasting.

And from time to time, if you can share a tea with someone,
you could have a toast,

you know, or something nice and bring that into a space.

Some of the time.

You know, that's what I say some of the time.

But I hope this space, this is what I want,

a space to come together and kind of charge up,

you know, that's what I want it to be.

Charge up the fasting space in our personal

selves through something like this, through connections
that we have in the future.

I'd love to take take the show on the road, do some, you know,

maybe even do like the actual show live,

but or at least create events
where people who are like minded, who are working on these things,

actually get to meet each other in person,
I think would be really fun,

because that is the sort of thing,
you know, they can build support.

He gives analogies in the book of stories of like

people who are like video gamers who are trying to get healthy.

The one guy started a gym for gamers,
you know, whereas like people,

you know, engaging in a hobby, you know, very sedentary.

And then it's hard to, you know, break out of that.

Not the typical say person is going to the gym,
but when the gym is full of gamers

and the people you're talking to,
then you say, well, you got stuff to talk about.

It creates
this shared identity makes it easier to be in a routine with it.

Much easier.

You know, if I come in sometimes,
you know, I'm doing weight consults with people

and, you know, people get a two for one
because their partner comes and then,

you know, I'm doing the console for one person,
but then the other person is they're just participating in it.

And then of course, everybody's eating together.

And, you know, I love that.

Actually, I do love it because, you know, if it's a double consult

and people on the same page and a partner is supportive,
then it makes it so much easier.

Probably the hardest thing like I'm describing this process, that's
maybe the most common thing,

trying to cook the food for people in the house and then go

and not eat well, everybody else is eating.

You say if, if, if everybody can generally support that,

if you can have full conversations and practice it,

even just ask for help with it, say, hey, this is a process
I'd like to try.

Can you help me with it?

You know, and caring, supportive family be like,
you know, like maybe they have fun with it.

But you know, I definitely have talked with a lot of people
are like, yeah, my family actually helped me to do it, you know?

And then that'd be good.

That's a lot easier than someone who is opposed to it, of course.

And I've I've had people have really,
you know, difficult encounters

with family members
who are not supportive or people saying, hey, you shouldn't do it.

And then you know, or talk with your medical team.

I've put every videos, got disclaimer
and a video of reasons to avoid fasting.

And I tell everybody, especially if you take any medications, talk
with your medical team.

You know, if someone's telling you
you shouldn't be doing this, always something

to listen to and be thoughtful. But.

Of course, in our culture,
we got we got subcultures in there on the internet.

Obviously you can find millions of videos about fasting process,

but it's not not a big part of the culture.

You know, other places it is so over a billion people practicing

fasting for one reason or another on the planet,
mainly for religious or spiritual traditions.

But people coming in now and seeing, oh, just as a health practice,

physiologically so much benefit, turn on some DNA repair enzymes,

turn on toxin clearing processes, help

to refresh and rejuvenating that rejuvenate the system.

Very positive.

And so as I'm thinking about these things, I'm just feeling

very happy
that I for the fasting that I've done, that I've set a model.

My kids know that this is something that can be done.

You know,
they are hyperactive and growing and don't do much fasting.

Okay. You know, unless it just happens.

They just sleep in, then somebody sleeps in till noon,
then they might get two meals.

Okay.

But, I'm feeling very happy that they have this perspective.

And, you know, it's just setting a model of something
that I really believe in that

I have seen, bring health and healing to so many people. So.

Do you have other situations, other scenarios,

other struggles
when you are trying to fast and everyone around you is eating?

Let me know in the comments.

Let's have an ongoing discussion.

You put scenarios around this topic in there,

they will come to me and I will love to have an ongoing discussion
and thinking about it.

We do more episodes about it or come to a live in the future,

and we can have ongoing discussions about it.

I think it's really a great thing to think deeply about

because, yeah, you you start fasting

doesn't take too long before you're like, oh man.

Like we've really got to interface with

with society and our family and everyone else.

And so definitely worth approaching
in a very kind and thoughtful way, for sure.

Maybe this is the big hurdle.

You know, maybe it is the big thing to overcome.

How do I flow through these social situations?

We did the session in the fall.

Clues to the puzzle.

Maybe this really is the puzzle.

How do we bring a lot of love and thoughtfulness
and kindness, patience,

compassion into this space,
both for ourselves and for other people?

These are my thoughts and trying to untie

that, not get in and walk for it.

Lots of patience.

I put out a little short.

I made a patients program

that a fasting process to me is like a patient's training program.

You know, really, it's like we are practicing patience
till we're going to be eating right.

And then here when we're in a situation, other people,

especially if we're in a scenario where other people are like

not quite on board, let's bring a lot of patience to their.

We can bring a lot of intensity into a,

you know, some people call it dieting space.

I don't I don't like that word too much.

But a health lifestyle, fasting to me, part of a health lifestyle
that we're trying to build,

something that helps us take
the most thoughtful steps forward in health.

A lot of people struggling
and fighting with themselves to lose weight.

To me, fasting is about trying in the midst of something
that is a struggle.

Struggle is real.

We recognize we're trying to create a flow state,

and this is what I want for people as much as possible.

But just like a river carving through a canyon, I love that water.

So soft, right?

It's like no structure, we say, but then it can cut through stone.

Okay, but it flows through it over time.

And I don't want people

having conflict with people about fasting.

I see that, as I say, how do we let this process,

which is just openness, fasting,
I describe as openness, give the ideas some space.

That's why I say, you know, it's like 90% mindset.

Like even if someone's coming in the fasting space,
don't have to be fast and just the ideas, right?

The ideas of openness and patience, kindness, compassion,
love for ourselves, right.

And and diving deep into the emotional connection with food.

Okay, these are really profound spaces.

And when you don't force it,
this is when I say change is really possible.

And and maybe change more broadly.

Like we can't change people, right.

Do you have you noticed? Right.

We can't come into a space for someone to eat in some other way.

Sometimes it can feel like that.

I think other people, I think because fasting is very powerful.

You know, I just tell you it's a very powerful practice
to take something

so central to the core of our being and say,
I'm not going to do that, you know?

Now, bold, powerful move.

Sometimes other people can feel intimidated by that.

And so, you know, we can have compassion

for other people is like, is it shocking to them?

You're like, oh my gosh.

And I think, you know, it can really make other people question
what they are doing.

Other people can feel judged by it.

So how we are putting it out there

that, you know, just trying to soften it, soften it.

This is what I try to do, fasting in general.

This is why I started talking about fasting more publicly,
because fasting approached

so intensely as a rigid discipline, something that,

you know, you've got a really, you know, smash.

You know, I like to try to just soften it

a lot so you don't have to do it on any specific frequency.

Recognize that a routine is very positive and can help.

But like let's bring a lot of patience to it,
can do that with ourselves.

And then seeing as we're getting in this place, okay,

really help to ease it in, especially in that family situation,

you know, in the, in the social space, you know,
I think a lot of it is more about us.

A lot of people don't. A lot of people don't care.

You know, we might think they care,
but really, like we're covering over our own sort of stuff.

It's it's it's perfectly acceptable
in almost every other social situation,

you know, just to say, oh, I'm, I ate before, you know, or,
you know, you don't have to tell people you're fasting.

You don't have to bring it.

I eat before this.

I don't need to do it or I'm not hungry or I've.

I just don't quite feel like it now.

You know, there's just you can come up with a lot of little small

talk to to move on from it.

So very nice to share this space with you today.

I hope you have a beautiful day
and I will look forward to connecting with you again soon.