Fasting Space

Welcome. Really nice to have you here.

Thanks for making it into our summer
series.

Summer weight loss.

We're talking about fasting exercise
today.

This is one of my favorite topics
something I truly enjoy in my life

fasting, exercise, and something that I've
seen tremendous benefits for for people.

And so I'm really excited
to share some perspectives on it.

It's going to be
a little bit of a science.

I read three papers, got three papers
that I reviewed yesterday,

and but it's not going to be a deep dive.

I'm just going to kind of show
you some pictures of them

and give you some reflections on it,
and just try to keep it lighter.

I've got links to the papers I'm going
to be discussing in the description.

So if you are wanting to dig
deep, rip them apart of course,

and then share any thoughts, we can have
a deep as you want conversation,

which I would love
in the comments in the future.

So if you're coming through on the replay,
do share your thoughts on that.

And are you a doc? Are you an athlete?

Are you
somebody who uses fasting training?

Do you have other studies
that you really like on this?

Of course we can dive deep,
we can do more sessions, but today

be a little bit lighter perspective.

So fasting and exercise
like I said these are like peanut

butter
and jelly is just spaghetti and sauce.

You know two things that just go together
so perfectly in my view

when you train it.

So fasting training if you are an exercise
or maybe you are like me

and maybe you had a pattern
like my old pattern used to be,

when I would exercise, I would get up
early, I would drink an orange juice,

I would have a banana,
and I would get the carbs flowing.

So this energy is right there.

Because, you know,
this is so much of what we're taught.

Give the body the fuel
so that we can perform and feel good.

And I did that for most of my life
up until a decade and something ago,

when I learned about fasting and learned
that the body is capable

of running off of storage energy,
and you can train to do it.

So then I started to do it.

And you realize that exercising
in the fasting space,

especially when you're not trained for it,
never practice.

It can be very difficult and you say
is the most difficult way to train

when you are not used to it,
because you're putting the full metabolic

burden onto the storage system, which
of course is an incredible thing to do.

It can be very positive, but.

We'll talk about how to very thoughtfully
move into it.

We're going to get into that
in this session.

So I decided to talk about this yesterday
because I got this

very thoughtful comment
in the chat for our session

yesterday, which got me reflecting on it.

So the comment is, I went on a hike
one summer during a two day fast,

and it was one of the most
peaceful experiences I have ever had.

The ketones were powerful that day
and I will never forget it.

So this is we are hearing a description
of like a beautiful

and positive life experience,
and I just loved it

because it triggered memories for me of
of similar experiences of times

when I have been fasting and exercising
and the two together has been.

I would describe it that way
peaceful, beautiful, positive,

encouraging some of the best feelings
that I've had in my life.

And so this is something that I want
for people.

You know, when I think about the standard
perspective

of exercise in this country,

you know, it is definitely in the zone
of punishing your way to health.

It is something

that a lot of people are doing that
they don't really want to be doing.

And it is something that people

push themselves to a place
that is beyond their enjoyment level.

And this is something that I never want
for people.

Exercise to me is incredibly positive.

It is just like a joyful expression.

So this experience, I have experienced
things like this,

and I want people to experience things
like it.

So many people trying to punish their way
to health when the potential of

what the experience can be is so positive.

I want a weight loss, I want exercise,
I want moving in a healthier,

stronger direction to be just so positive,
such a joyful exploration.

And so I appreciate this comment so much.

Thank you for sharing because it's
showing us a glimpse of what is possible.

People think of a fasting state as a state
where people are just struggling

and suffering, and the idea that fasting
can become something that people

experience as peaceful and is actually
one of the most positive memories.

You see, I'm going to remember this
my entire life.

I felt so good flowing
through a hunger space and realizing

that fasting, paradoxically,
can be the thing that can control hunger,

that can actually be putting a lid on it
and flowing through a space.

Maybe you've struggled
with hunger in the long term.

Hunger is the barrier
to entry to a fasting space.

And so that is one of the things
that can make fasting difficult.

Absolutely.

But once we get a broader perspective,
we hear from people

with stories like this.

And I'll tell you my experience, I'm happy
to see yours.

You flow through a space
where hunger is diminished.

Body starts getting into the place.

Okay, we realize energy isn't coming in.

We start ramping up the ketone production,
and you start to realize,

this is why I say
fasting is an empowering practice.

Realizing that there is power and energy
in here, and that energy and power

is there for us to experience

and enjoy power,
our life and power exercise

not just, you know, say,
oh, I want to lose some weight.

Not just
I'm exercising for exercise sake,

but like actually to feel peaceful,
to feel calm, centered, grounded.

This is the potential of fasting exercise
that I really want to lean into.

So major synergy between these two things,

fasting in and of itself,
just to flow through a space can be

very peaceful and helping to flow out of
a hunger space.

Exercise, even without fasting,
have tremendous benefits from our health.

And we'll get into some of the studies.

I'm going to be sharing opinions

about it, so I'll give you
some scientific perspective.

My opinions no hype.

You know, there's in all the studies
what we'll see.

I'll show you.

There's not like a study that says, oh,
like fasting exercise.

This proves that everybody
should be doing it all the time.

There's a lot of gray area
and so nothing hyped,

everything
just looking at the reality and grounded.

But my perspective is these two.

So good, so good.

So if it's not your thing though
never forced.

And what the studies show,
I guess to just tell you at a

time is like people benefit from exercise
whenever you do it.

So a lot of studies show people
getting more exercise, whether it's fed

state or fasted state,
people doing great and it's so positive.

So don't feel like you have to do it again

at any point,
but just realize a lot of open space.

That's what fasting is, open space.

And here fasting exercise itself more open
space of another type.

So here's the first paper
that I just tell you about.

Effects of aerobic exercise
performed in fasted versus

fed state on fat
and carbohydrate metabolism in adults.

A systematic review and meta analysis.

They looked at 27 studies.

This one was from back 2016.

And like I said,
I won't rip it apart in detail.

Just the broad summary
is that across these studies

that they were looking at,
they found profound metabolic effects

of fasting state
versus fed state and exercise, in

that people's markers of insulin
sensitivity were better, people's blood

sugar was better,
and people's markers of fat utilization

were higher significantly

in the fasting state, which is everything
that we would want, right?

If we're trying to get our insulin
resistance gone and improve our blood

sugar utilization,
improve our access to body fat.

So this is the premise
or one of the big ideas of

fasting exercise,
is that it can help physiologically

to put the load
on the metabolism at that point,

see if we're trying to ultimately burn off
body fat, which we're trying to do

if we're losing weight,
doesn't it make sense?

Get the food out of the way
and then target the storage system?

That's the big idea.

And so there is research that shows,

especially in short term studies,
that that effect is happening.

And so that's this review.

And like I said these papers are linked
in the description.

Now one of the papers that is in

that and reference this study from 2014,

body composition changes

associated with fasting versus
non fasting aerobic exercise.

Now this is a small study.

It's 20 women who are BMI

under 30 which I think is important
in the average age of 22.

So young women
not significantly overweight

are put onto this protocol
randomized ten in each group

to what they call a fasting
training versus non fasting training.

And this was one month.

They're exercising
three times a week for an hour.

And it's an ISO caloric study, meaning

the two groups are getting
the same amount of calories.

And the first meal
that each group is getting

is a meal replacement shake, which is
something that I'm not super keen on.

You have highly processed product
and the difference is

the intervention group
did the exercise before the shake and.

The control group did the shake first
and then exercised,

but the actual timing difference
was very little.

And the conclusion of this study
was basically that it didn't help

very much, like it didn't make

a big difference at all, like weight loss
and things was pretty similar.

And so this is actually a highly cited,
cited study to say that fasting exercise

is really no different
than regular exercise.

And I would just give you
my thoughts on it.

Like if it was the case,
it wouldn't bother me.

I say it just is what it is like.

We can look at data
and say it is what it is

and like we said, we don't have to.

Every nail doesn't have to be a hammer.

And we're in a fasting space

and we're trying to explore
the most benefit from it that we can.

I will tell you, I'm
not really convinced by this.

And this type of study is an example
of something that I encounter a lot,

especially in studies where it shows like,
oh, fasting isn't doing so much,

or something like this

is there's a lot of medical studies

that are fasting studies
where people aren't really fasting.

And this is, you know, in the ballpark
of what I would say

that I'm not convinced
that this is really a fasting study.

I put a slide on here next to show.

Like when I talk about fasting,
this is the type of thing

that I'm trying to set up for people.

To me, eating two meals a day in a
6 to 8 hour window

and you pick that window, that's
your classic 16 eight sort of pattern.

I took this off the article three step
weight loss plan on simple fasting calm.

You want this cycle?

Here's a 24 hour cycle in the bottom.

If you're eating for six hours
and it takes 12 hours to get to the space

where we're really flipping over

to our fasting physiology,
which is, on average, what it takes,

that is opening up
this golden window of six hours

where ever actually having hormonal access
into the storage system.

And so this is like level one of fasting
to me is how I think about it.

And so if we are going through a space
and we are trying to really access body

fat, burn it off, lose weight, I want this
sort of cycle going for people.

And this is what I call fasting.

Now, if that's too intense
to start out and.

We need to.

Atomic
habits are way there and baby steps,

you know, to get there to see that's fine.

And if you call that level one is
many levels, infinite levels before that.

But this is what I really call
level one fasting practice.

And so. The study is not doing that. Okay.

So to go back to this study,
you know we're just getting to 12 hours.

And then it's like people exercise
versus have a shake.

And I think it's something that could be
studied in a great bit of more detail.

You know it's probably the type of thing
one month and only three times a week

and then eating directly after it,
you know, there's I would guess there

probably is actually a real effect there,
but it was probably not

able to be captured, you know,
in groups of ten people for one month.

It is a type of thing that
if we were to study a practice like that

over a year and a thousand people,
I bet we could pick something up.

But we're probably not seeing it here
because this is a lifelong process,

you know, finding a way
of being a way of our movement

and things isn't really a three times
in a week for one month sort of thing.

It would be like a bigger
sort of process.

But the way I would design a fasting
study would be to do the same intervention

that they did.

Someone is exercising at seven,
for example, but

then they're not that
they're eating two meals instead of three,

and they're putting that meal later
and we're not directly

eating exactly after the exercise ended.

So when I'm thinking
about fasting, exercise to start

setting us up for how we might actually do
it, I wouldn't do it

like they're doing in this study,
which I don't think is really fasting.

You know, to me, fasting means to go
without something for a while.

So if we're normally eating
three times a day and we go down to two,

all of a sudden now we're fasting
and someone says like,

well, fasting only works
because it helps you to get less calories.

And to me, that's an argument
that that I don't care about.

Like I always just say,
hey, let's stop at that part

where you say fasting only works.

I was like, that's good enough for me.

If it only works because there's less
calories or because there's more time,

or however it is,
we can get lost in a lot of scientific,

you know, processes
when it's like, practically speaking,

say, people just looking for something
that works.

Now, if I was having a deeper discussion
with someone, I was like, no,

there's more to it because we want to,
yes, create the calorie deficit,

but then put it on a window
where the hormonal space of the body

is aligned
and we can actually access the energy.

And this is what we're starting

to get in a fasting exercise space
when we eat this way.

And I would love to see more studies
that are doing this.

Okay, so third study
that I just wanted to comment on.

And all these links are in the description
if you want to dive deeper,

but I'm just giving you

my overall thoughts
before we head into some more practical

things for like real world application,
this study effects of fasted

versus fed State exercise on performance
and Post Exercise metabolism.

This one from more recently
in 20 1846 studies they looked at.

And then this wasn't specifically a weight
loss study is more like performance.

Like how do people actually do exercising.

And this is something that we really want
to bridge a gap between

because like so many of performance
sort of things,

like we can have a lot of studies
which I'll tell us certain things

about exercise for a specific type
of person with a specific type of goal,

like in the elite athletes
trying to set a world record time is going

to have a different nutritional space
in a type of race or event

than like an average person
who's just trying to feel good

and have a positive experience
and maybe lose some weight.

So like Worlds Apart
who really have to think about like,

what type of study are we looking at
and what are our goals

is something to think about.

So here, this study not looking at weight
loss specifically, but performance

and the general takeaways across the 46
studies is that there are studies

that show a range of results,
including some studies that show

fasting doing better,
some for performance on different time

frames, some showing eating doing better
for performance on average.

Well, I think the next slide
I show here, I picked out

two sections, which I just read to you
briefly.

Findings suggest a support the rationale

that training in a glucose deprived state
induces adaptations

which improve fuel efficiency
and utilization during exercise.

This is very nice.

We definitely want that.

However, regarding studies investigating
potential divergent responses to exercise

in fed versus fasting, changes in acute
exercise studies

may not necessarily be directly applicable
to studies investigating

chronic training, adaptations
and responses to feeding versus fasting.

So I just loved that chunk specifically

because I really feel there's
a lot of that happening in the literature.

There's a lot of studies looking at things
for a month in a specific way

that might not even really be fasting

according to something
that I would really resonate with.

And I think we are missing
in the literature

some very interesting physiology.

Absolutely.

And so I just wanted to highlight
that I think researchers seeing that

we might not quite be getting
the full picture of what's happening here.

Absolutely.

Interestingly, more recent fed

versus fasting trial found that precursors
feeding blunted

the expression of several key genes
involved in adipose tissue.

That's fat tissue metabolism.

That's what we want to be happening,
right.

Mobilizing energy out of the fat stores,
eating before exercise can block that.

We see that physiologically,
just like the other study was showing, the

the inverse of that says a lot of places.

See that these findings again
indicate that acute

nutritional status can profoundly affect
the magnitude of post exercise.

Physiological adaptations in important
endocrine tissues like body fat.

Absolutely.
And so this is profound, right?

This is why I said in that other study,
you don't want to just have the shake

right at the end because we are having
these profound effects in the body.

You want to give some space
for these effects to work and happen.

Like when we stop exercising,
the metabolism doesn't stop.

And if we want to set up an environment
where you're mobilizing,

fat utilization is like you don't
necessarily want to stop that right away.

So I say,

you know, the big question people ask,
should I eat before I exercise or not?

And if we're saying no
when we experiment with that,

you don't have to eat right afterwards
either.

You can have some open space
and many people find I know, I find that

if I am fasting exercise,
which is almost the only way I try

to exercise now, because it feels so good
that actually my hunger

is significantly diminished after that
and you can beautifully float

through a space.

Like the comment
said, we're doing a two day fast

and then felt so peaceful and so good.

That's what I wanted for people.

Yes, given that these cellular adaptations
are a critical determinant

of exercise performance,
and I would say what

we're not seeing in this study
to a critical to determine

of post exercise metabolic functioning,
that's like really what we want.

Understanding the mechanisms
and potential role

of nutrition in optimizing
the state is is very important.

I totally agree.

And then from that conclusion section,
they say the reviews

findings indicate that fed versus
fasting exercise conditions

differentially affect performance
and post exercise metabolism.

Pre exercise feeding enhances performance

during prolonged aerobic exercise,
meaning greater than an hour,

whereas performance did not differ
during shorter duration.

Aerobic exercise between fed and fasted
conditions

was their ultimate conclusion of this.

Now, I think this is very,
very fascinating because,

you know, Gatorade or some sports drink,
you know, just to pick on it, for

example, is designed specifically
for people who are, you know, in a peak

exercise state, trying to, like,
have every short term advantage to like,

have energy present and, you know, does
does that help?

There is research that does support that.

Having immediate
glucose available for an explosive,

especially anaerobic activity in the short
term is going to help.

But how many people
are consuming products like that

so that they can exercise at the gym
when they're trying to go lose weight?

And I just tell you
this is very counterproductive.

We are we are crossing the intentions
with these things.

And this systematic review.

One of the big things I'm taking away from
it is showing that

most people do not benefit from this
in their performance.

Meaning, you know, there's a certain logic
that says, oh, you need to eat food

so that you can exercise harder

so that you can burn more energy
so that you actually lose more weight.

And I say, I think,

you know, research,
I think not really on the side of that,

I would say
if someone experiences that, you say,

oh, I something like
this really gets me going

because it might very well, I say, okay,
there could be a space for it.

But my experience and many people
that I've worked with in the training

space
is that this can actually be trained.

And as you train the body to function
and you build out the pathways,

you come into a space that this research
is actually suggesting,

which is that it really doesn't
make very much difference,

you know, and wouldn't
that be a beautiful space to be in?

This is what has felt so liberating to me
in an athletic perspective, is to realize

I got strength in power
here, and I am not dependent.

Like it's not like,
oh, I can only exercise if I drink

this special juice, you know,
and then I can do it.

Otherwise I'm weak, you know.

And when the reality is that
when you train it, fasting

training can build incredible
strength and endurance in the body.

And if you're by incredible strength
and endurance

for an average person,
I just mean, can you take a walk?

You know, it doesn't have to be like
going out and running a marathon, okay?

It just say, can we take a walk and
do something here and actually feel okay?

And like the comment
said, was doing a fasting

and just went for a hike
and felt incredible.

And this is the type of thing
that is very practical

that I want to bring into our life.

So I'm trying to take these perspectives
from some data

and then bring it to us in practical ways
that it can inform what we're doing.

So some highlights from this.

Fasting doesn't
necessarily make performance worse.

Okay.

This is the
thing is like we don't have incredible

conclusive evidence proves, oh,
everybody should be doing it.

But like we do have some evidence
that says like it's

not really making things worse
until you get out beyond an hour.

And I've certainly experienced that.

I've in the next couple slides,
I talk about some of my athletic

experience with it,
but under an hour, like,

I'll tell you, even if it did make
performance worse, like on some metric

like, oh, I didn't, you know, run my lap
as fast as I humanly possibly could.

It doesn't mean it still isn't worthwhile.

So like,
even if the performance was worse,

if it was setting us up

for some metabolic advantage,
it still might be very worthwhile.

But the performance
data doesn't even suggest that.

And most people
not working out for over an hour,

you know, I mean, for me, I'm
a big exerciser, but like most of the time

I'm not doing an exercise
that is longer than an hour.

That's the exception. And.

I find that very encouraging.

And I think this is the sort of thing
with a supplement industry

and all of the fake science
that is pushing

so many products on people,
like the human body is powerful.

This is my message for people.

And and people can exercise and do things
and just do fun things.

It doesn't have to even be like exercise
and just be active.

Go do some yard work and some things.

And you can do this in a space
you don't need a pre-workout

and like ten different $20 supplements
and all this stuff.

To me, I'm just like, I don't think
we're in a good space with that.

Unnecessary simple. We need simple.

That's what
the idea of this whole channel is.

Okay, there are real observable

physiologic benefits
to fasting training in the literature.

And when we look at it,
especially in the short term,

we see, okay, there is a lot of things
to actually be really excited about,

like increased markers of fat utilization
and decreased insulin resistance.

And these are things
that are very positive.

And then the counterpoint to
that is there,

I think is a lack of data in the long term
connecting population benefits.

And maybe that's a real effect.

You say, you know,

one of the studies, it just says
as we get out in the longer term,

this is where I started

the session with just exercising
anytime is so good for you.

That is like whenever you do it,
it is helping you.

That's like a lot of people
look at the totality of

the medical literature and say that,
and I think that is the reality.

Like exercise at any point is so good.

Just do it.

But I think, you know, are
we really capturing the fasting effect?

I have not found a fascinating exercise
study, especially in anything longer

than 1 or 2 months
that that really does it or looks at it

the way I try to counsel people to do
in the way I personally do it. And.

So I think there's a lot of space.

But then that's why I say we're going
to move out of any scientific space

into some of my observations and opinions,
and we just hear people's experience.

So and that's okay.

The starting place of science
is observation.

And so it's still science in a way.

That doesn't mean
we can't experiment with it

and see if it benefits
our own personal life.

And this is what I would just to say,
we don't have to solve

a scientific debate
across every sort of study and things.

We can take our information from it
and glean what we can from it,

and then we can just experience
what does this mean and look like

in my own life
and tested to help us or not.

Can we adapt to it?

And would you say is
this is actually a better way of being?

And I'm having beautiful experiences
and feeling stronger,

you know, and and it does seem
to be boosting my experience.

So fasting exercise can be done
any time of the year.

But here we're in the summer
as we're recording this.

And so some are giving us
a beautiful opportunity

when we're more active
to actually lean into it a little bit.

And so let's talk about what it can be.

So I'm just a big believer
personally in it.

I mean, for my own self, I spent,
you know, two decades of my athletic life

doing as many pre workouts
and carb loading and things as possible,

and the idea of switching out of that,
I thought I could never do it.

And the first time

I remember, the first time

I learned about fasting training,
I was watching a video.

I think it was someone like LeBron
James talking about,

you know, how they trained fasting because
it is giving them metabolic strength.

So when it's the fourth quarter
and they're just totally exhausted

that they don't have to hit the bench
and be dependent on,

you know, some sort of glucose coming in.

And isn't this the big picture
of like our society that we are.

So we got so much glucose coming in?

I'm like, I kind of resonate with this.

I would like to be able to exercise
and not be dependent on it.

And so I got on my bike.

I was in I was training for 100 mile
bike ride at the time

and I say, okay, I'm going to get up
and I'm going to do my workout.

But no orange juice, no banana.

I'm just going to get on the bike.

And I've never done this before.

I was like,
and I got on the bike and I was like,

whoa, like, I'm not used to this.

I was like, I just got to turn one
pedal over and then the next and

and absolutely my performance
the first time I did it was way low.

And to try to ramp it up,
I was definitely missing

some top end on it
and but I stuck with it.

And so I switched with it.

And I say by a week
I started to feel okay,

and by two weeks
I was feeling really good and out.

Toward the third week,

I was like, this is actually better,
like to just just to warm up.

And then so I was like,
oh, the system really can adapt to it.

And so this would be the type of thing,
the progression that you could do.

And I walk through that. So my experience

now if I'm going to exercise,
I always try to do it before I eat.

And you know, so thereby
I usually exercise in the morning.

And if it doesn't work in my day

and I'm going to exercise
in the afternoon, you know,

I push that out, I might have an omen day
just so that I can put the exercise.

You know, if I got meetings
and I got things and all this stuff,

I'm not I'm never going to eat lunch
personally and then go run or go bike.

I'm always going to skip lunch.

And if I've skipped breakfast and lunch,
you say, oh, like,

well, wouldn't you be weak?

And this hasn't been my experience,
I'll just tell you.

And so this is me
running a half marathon.

Fasting did it in

just over an hour and a half,
and it was an incredible experience.

I'll just tell you,
you know, before I've run multiple

half marathons fasting and I'll tell you,
I prefer to run a half marathon.

So, you know, like
the literature was saying in the study,

we looked at getting out over an hour
and a half.

Your performance in studies be better

if you are having pre
exercise nutrition and so half marathon.

I'm not claiming
that I'm going to be setting

the best time
and my experience actually I've done it.

I will get a better time.

I mean this is just my own little n of one
you know correlation.

But I feel better.

And sometimes I've set out
to do a half marathon fasting

and I've hit like mile eight
and I've felt really low, and I've

hit the Gatorade at the station and,

and had a benefit from it for performance.

Okay.

And so say set a better time.

Personally, I'm not going to argue
with anybody about any physiologic

literature
that that you can that you can do it.

But I tell you
then I didn't feel as good.

And he was like,
you put all that sugar in your stomach

and like sometimes like it's just like,
oh, I was like, okay, I can run faster.

But my experience maybe not as good there
where it's like, I don't know, the part

that resonates the most with me
is just the fact that I can do it.

I've done 100 mile bike ride fasting,
which is something I don't recommend.

People just go out and do this.

It's incredibly difficult, is incredibly
difficult, is putting a huge burden.

And I'm doing 100 mile ride
this next weekend

and I'm not going to do it, okay,
because it's very hard.

And you say,
what is the pleasant experience?

I'm not trained as well right
at this moment as I was like two years ago

when I did it.

And so this is a sort of thing.

What are the goals that you have?

But just exploring the space,
I say it's so wide open.

And so I'm just letting you know
a little about my experience with it.

But you can take this down
to much more normal

levels of exercise,
which to me is just like taking a walk

like exercise doesn't have to be
anything more than taking a walk.

And there's lots of studies
that actually show that the majority

of the benefits that we get from
any type of exercise

can actually be accomplished
just by walking.

And I personally consider walking
to be the world's healthiest activity.

And so fasting, exercise,

walk before you run,
you know, in the fasting space.

What I also say is
sit before you can walk.

And so like let's bring it way back down.

Remember, if we go out of the exercise
space just into the fasting space,

I say just sitting.

You see, we're doing nothing.

But our whole metabolism is running
when we're just sitting here.

It's not that nothing is happening.

Heart is beating and lungs are working
and brain is going, and it's a furnace

is running inside of us and there is
so much energy I should find it again.

I found graphs that were showing total
human energy

expenditure
in resting versus exercise state.

And it's like even doing intense exercise.

It's only bumping up by like 25%
like the total energy expenditure.

Because like so much energy
is being used in our body just by sitting.

And so someone who's not used to fasting,
okay,

just to sit can be good enough, you know.

And so that's what I'm saying.

Like just sit through a space
and you make it

and you got to feel good doing that
before you start walking.

And, and it's like now you put the walking
load on it and it's like,

okay, body's like we got to up the level.

And maybe that's all fasting
exercise ever is.

And then you love it and it's beautiful.

And just always do that
because can you push yourself too hard.

Can you overexert yourself
and could you hurt yourself?

Of course you could,

because you can do the exact same thing
with non fasting exercise.

I've had people, you know, in
my experience in medicine who got the bug.

One day
they said I'm going to start exercising.

They bought an exercise bike
and they literally hit like two hours

on the exercise bike

the first day, pedaling away
and gave themselves a heart attack.

I've seen that multiple times.

Okay,
so you can hurt yourself with exercise.

Always talk to your medical team.

You know, with any type of exercise,
especially a fasting exercise.

Absolutely. Do it.

Move into it slowly.

Let the body gain in strength,
both physical strength to actually do it

and then metabolic strength to handle
the energy load you want to lean into it.

That's the series that we're doing
for this 30 day challenge.

How are you doing on it on day two?

Did you lean in yesterday?

Remember the idea going
plus one on the fasting space?

Just lean in a little bit.

Don't have to push things
to any sort of extreme space.

Just giving the body
a little bit of an opportunity

to flex into it a little bit,
find the edge where it feels good.

That same idea with the fasting
you take with an exercise.

Without fasting, you can lean into it
a little bit, and then you can also lean

into the space with fasting exercise,

which is you might find if you give it

the space and slowly move into it,
you might find that you love it.

And I hope you do.

I really hope you do, because I know it's
been a great joy for me.

Great joy.

So how do you implement it? Okay.

How to implement it?

Talk with your medical team.

Look at my disclaimers. I'm
an internet guy.

I'm just here
sharing educational perspectives.

Anybody taking any medicine,
especially people with blood

pressure, blood sugar problems. Okay.

Any sort of medicine,
if especially if you're taking an oral

hypoglycemic medicine for diabetes
or something like this, like that

can drive the blood sugar too low.

Could you drive your blood
sugar too low by fasting exercise?

Of course you could.

Absolutely.

I never want that to happen to anybody.

In all the years that I have been talking
to people about fasting and exercise

and all these things, you know,

in my consultation practice,
I've never had anybody pass out.

I've never had that happen any.

But I never want that
to happen to anybody.

And so just be thoughtful. That's
why we go slow.

That's
why you talk with your medical team.

That's why you plan things
you don't go full Leroy

Jenkins into, you know, something?

Stay hydrated.
Can you get dehydrated? Okay.

Fasting from food
does not mean fasting from water.

Of course, a big perspective

that I'm giving on the channel
lean into hydration helps with hunger.

Helps you to fast triple important
if you are going to be

doing some fasting exercise
and especially if it's hot out.

So don't overheat yourself.

So if you are just starting out,
especially find a cool point in the day.

Don't put every single burden on yourself
all at once.

Like not getting enough fluid,
not being trained for it

or used to it, and going
full on in the heat of the day

and the sun and the things like,
could you give yourself a heat stroke?

Of course,
all kinds of things could happen.

Stay far away from anything like that.

Go slow and then lean in and let the body
expand in its ability over time.

These are very synergistic.

Like I said at the beginning, fasting
space actually help you to exercise.

This is how it can flow around.

Doesn't necessarily feel that
in the beginning, like the first times

you fast, you say, how
is this helping me with a hunger problem?

I'm feeling so much more hunger.

Okay, so flow through it.

Body strengthens.

So all of a sudden, because
when do you feel least like exercising?

Right after Thanksgiving dinner.

Who's going to go out and and run around
or even take like a huge walk?

You want to take a slow walk.

If you just had a huge
meal, it's not going to be your peak

exercise performance, right?

So what's the opposite of that?

All the weight is gone.

You know you're not lugging around
a big meal.

You're lighter, you know, and it's like
all the blood flow is not in the stomach.

It's out in the muscles to like, power.

You like there's so many physiologic
advantages to exercising

in the fasting state.

But lean into it
and you might find that you love it.

And it doesn't have to be all the time.

Like I said, I've done

I've done huge amounts of fasting,
competition and fasting training.

I love it.

I try to do it most of the time,
but like I said, I'm doing a big ride

this weekend, 100 miles
and I'm going to have breakfast

and I'm going to eat stuff
at the snack station.

And it's it's going to help me out and
it's going to be a fun and pleasant day.

So just because I could do it,

I know I could do it,
but I'm going to have fun doing it

so you can do it when it suits you
and you don't have to do it.

So never any pressure to to do it.

And this I think is very important.

Plan a backup and be okay to take a break.

You know, if you're taking a walk,
if you know it's okay, it's not like you

okay.

You don't necessarily
have to have like some backup always.

But if like, you're really trying
to stretch yourself or something beyond or

if you're walking farther than you have,

like whatever your situation is,
why not have a little energy bar?

Why not give yourself, you know,
just the mental space to say, hey,

if I'm feeling a little overwhelmed,
you know, in the state, why not just stop?

Why not just rest? C never push it.

If you're getting some signals
from the body, say, hey, this is taking me

to a place where it's like we're
outstripping our capacity a little bit.

Never force anything, okay?

Always everything we want.

Gentle and thoughtful, joyful exploration.

That's the mindset,
especially as we're learning.

Okay. You can push this stuff.

This this is like the maximal training
space, full power of fasting.

Putting our exercise into that
sort of space is very, very intense space.

And it can be okay.

It doesn't have to be as I'm saying.

It doesn't have to be.

We can still make that.

Just like we're saying, gentle
hike in a thing,

take a walk,
make it as gentle as you want to be.

But just recognizing

that there's a lot of space
to really challenge the body deeply.

But you got to grow
into something like that.

So these are some perspectives
on fasting exercise.

What is your experience?
Have you ever done it?

Are you interested in doing it?

What questions do you have about it?

Are there parts of the science
that we presented

that you would like to know more about?

Talk a lot more about it
if people are interested,

because like I said, it's
just one of my favorite things.

I honestly can't I can't imagine

my life without it
because it's been a huge part of my life.

Fasting, exercise, love it.

And I think, yeah, I think we are missing.

That's what I say.

I think we are missing
societally a lot of the benefit of it.

So we'll have some conversations about it
and we'll see where these things go.

Do you finding

as much benefit from it
as I am suggesting or not?

I am happy to hear either way, whatever
the reality is, I do want to hear,

but I would say the space to lean into it.

Here it is. It's somewhere
we're trying to lose some weight.

We're on a 30 day challenge.

Maybe that challenge for you.

The space is just fasting.

I personally believe
that people can accomplish any weight

loss process they want, pretty much
only with the fasting path.

If you go all in on fasting,
you absolutely can lose weight doing it.

But I really like the idea.

I was like, okay, let's take the pressure
off that pure fasting dial in.

Very intense.

Okay, let's get the dietary perspective
in there.

To me, fasting and healthy
eating always two sides of the same coin.

So it's like we can dial out
as much processed foods as we can.

That's
bringing those two things into balance.

Just the amount of fasting
that we feel joyful and good about,

the healthiest eating that we possibly can
for the capacity

and desire that we have to do it,
but then exercise a whole

nother thread to pull on that side,
a whole nother thing to balance it out.

So leaning in on our fasting challenge

could be just leaning in on
the fasting process could be challenging

ourselves with the healthier food,
but this could be a big part of it.

Leaning in on the exercise,
maybe without fasting.

Just find the have our fasting space
all right,

and then have our exercise space
somewhere else.

If fasting exercise isn't your thing,
lean into fasting later in the day

like the research studies suggest.

Whenever you put it,
it's going to help you.

And so however all these things balance.

Remember underneath that or it's either
it's either a three legged stool

with a foundation
or it's a four legged stool.

Our mental health, our wellness practices,

making sure that as a foremost priority
that we are keeping ourselves

in a thoughtful, positive direction,

that we are not overwhelming ourselves
in any way.

Because every health practice,
if it's going to be sustainable,

we really need to enjoy it, right?

We do not stick
with things that we dislike.

And so whether it's fasting or exercise,
make it a joyful exploration.

Then you're going to want to do it.

If it's a wellness practice
in and of itself, if we're fasting

because then we feel better
if we're exercising because it helps us.

Like that. First comment.

Give us this joyful experience
in finding a space of peace.

Then it is going to be beautiful.

Then make it a part of our life.

Fasting. Exercise.

Been a part of my life
now for over a decade.

I'm very grateful for it and
I love to hear your experience with it.

as I'm thinking about it, Marie says,
I use a recumbent bike

each day and I will plan to try
it fast in tomorrow.

Hey that's cool.

Like so do implement
many of the thoughts.

Like we said, take it easy, lean into it,
have a backup space.

Be very thoughtful and gentle.

Stay hydrated and you know
and see how it goes and just recognize.

Okay, doctor Z had a little bit of a rough
go the first time I was like,

oh, this could feel
this is a different experience.

And and so just have a lot of grace
with yourself.

Recognize like okay,
we're trying something very interesting.

Try to feel it in the body.

Like can you feel where the energy is
coming from?

You know, it's
a very interesting experience

and you might say, okay,
really warm up with it, start very slow

and and yeah,
just kind of get the breathing into it

and help the body to understand
what is happening here.

I think it helps to kind of frame
those thoughts, tell the body like,

hey, look, we're doing something
a little different here.

I like to personify what's happening
in the body on a cellular level.

I think of the little cells are saying,
like, what are you doing to me here?

And they're trying to figure it out.

They're like, okay, why are we not
having this food like we normally do?

And what do we do?

And then I picture
some cell in the back is saying

like, oh, hey, not like
this is the fasting exercise program.

We got plans for that. But like,
I think they're buried in the back.

Then they run it and get them
in their dusty and they open it up.

And so it can take a little while
to get to it.

And so especially the first time you do it
and the first couple times

and anything like that, it can take well,
think of like a steam engine, right?

It's like the first things,
like we're just trying to get that thing

to crank over one time,
and once we get a one revolution,

then the momentum is starting to build
and then we can start building.

And it's like getting the engine
moving down the tracks.

That's how my experience was
as I started doing this.

So let me know what your experience is.

Yes, but a beautiful thing to do,
I say a beautiful thing to do.

Take note
like see what your experience is like.

Wherever you can flow through it.

You find an edge with it, whatever type of
space you open up, and then you know it.

Be curious.
You're staying hydrated, drinking water.

I encourage anybody who's trying it,
take a little note

of the space of how you feel like
how is the appetite?

How is the energy?

This would be a very interesting space
to explore it.

This is the type of thing

that I've never seen explored
in a scientific study, which is appetite

effects on fasting exercise.

You know,
when we are in a cycle of of eating,

right, it's keeping us in that mode
where like the energy where we're

kind of flipped in, like literally
in the body into a food energy mode.

And so if if we're in that mode
and we're exercising

and we're loading ourselves up
with sugar drinks

and all this sort of stuff like,
absolutely, then you can feel that crash.

This is just like a mini mirror
of what happens, like in our workday

and these other things,
like you have a lunch,

especially a carb focused lunch.

Don't you feel that crash or is like
like our blood sugar is dropping?

It's like we need a pick me up,

you know, this is how we can get
stuck into cycles of snacking.

Eating and exercise
can put us in that same sort of space

and cycle where it's like, oh,
then I exercise, I get hungry, or is like,

we feel our energy dropping,
like we really need something.

One of the big benefits of low carb
eating and fasting the people experience,

okay, mental clarity,
which people experience as like

more stable energy levels, especially
if we're getting those ketones coming.

It's like we're not having these crashes.

Fasting, exercise space,
getting us into that same physiology.

Unlike a micro level
or a much shorter time frame.

My experience is
I'll be a little hungry in the morning.

Sometimes it's not.

Even though I do a lot of fasting,
I typically don't eat breakfast.

I stick with the coffee.

Sometimes I'll still get a little hungry.

You know, it's like, you know, it's okay.

And sometimes more than others,

you kind of flow through it
and then a coffee helps.

But my experience invariably

is if I'm in the morning, you know,

certainly it's true if I'm not hungry,
you know, which most of the time I'm not.

But like if I am,

if I go out and exercise in the morning
and I've been feeling a little hungry,

I get back from it and then I'm set,
like I'm pretty good to go then.

And so this is what I'd be curious
to hear from people.

Do other people experience this,
and can you train that over time

that that the exercise itself
can become a fasting aid.

And this is also such a flip
to how things are typically thought of

in our society that that by that
you can exercise your way through a hunger

and come out on the other side in a more
peaceful and more content sort of space.

And I, I totally do experience that.

It's like another unlock, you see.

Okay, how we're trying to find
all these different parts of the puzzle.

How do we unlock the puzzle.

And that is
the complexity of our metabolism

and our energy and weight
that feels locked up in this energy.

So this is tool,
I think, like a lock pick.

You know,
it's like we're trying to get in.

How do we unlock this energy
and these things so that our experience

that we can flow through it
in a powerful, effective, positive way?

It might be that fasting exercise,
like a lack pick.

I really like to think of it this way,
that it's like just getting in there

and finding the little pin in there
to hit it, to open up the experience.

If you found it to be true,
just think about it this way.

What if you did find it to be true
that a fasting exercise,

contrary to the way
almost everybody thinks about it, actually

was a tool
that you could use to diminish hunger

or smash through some sort of hunger
barrier

or obstacle that actually unlocked
greater levels of fasting.

Wouldn't this be an incredible

tool, actually be very, very positive?

I think a lot of what we're trying
to do here in this space, fasting space,

like build out the toolkit of thoughts
and practices

that help us to navigate the obstacles
that we have in our life.

And so here today,
we're looking at a very interesting tool.

And I'm liking thinking of it this way.

The more I think about it
in my own personal experience, this is

this is absolutely how I experience it.

I've talked over the years,
especially like right now

I am not consulting
with a lot of athletes, but at the

when I was at the university, I consulted
with a lot of student athletes.

This is my clinic at the university,
was right on campus, were right

by the Cole Center and Camp Randall
and all the training facilities.

And so a lot of UW athletes
coming through my practice.

And so I got the opportunity to work

with a lot of athletes
and talk about fasting and training and.

So it's not just my own experience
that I'm speaking.

I've talked to a lot of people athletic
performance, but so this is definitely

an effect that I have witnessed in

other people
that that a fasting space can diminish

hunger not always and not right away,
but as you train to it.

And this would be the experience to find
the edge with it and then lean into it.

So anybody like the study,

especially the first times you do it,
this is the type of thing I would do.

And this is why I said always have a plan
B, you say, I'm going to try this out

and see how it goes.

And then I got my backup plan.

Like if I'm five minutes in on the bike,
it's the first time

I did it and I'm like, oh,
I don't know about this.

I have your little bar, have a juice,
have something and carry on,

and then you probably feel it
in that space.

This is what I was saying before, like,

can you feel where the energy is coming
from if you're in an exercise space

and then and you can feel like,

okay, the energy is kind of locked up
a little bit, and then from that space,

like cells in the bottom saying,
hey, we really need some energy in here.

And then you drink an orange juice.

You can literally feel it flowing.

You feel it
literally flow down into the stomach.

You can feel it absorb, and then you can
feel as it gets into the body.

So fascinating thing
to really feel through.

And then as you're feeling that, then
that's an edge that you can just notice,

like just to feel out the energy
flowing through the body.

And then as you build out that practice,
I bet you find that pretty interesting.

All right.

Really loved this session.

Thank you for the questions
and the support and the thoughts.

I wish you a very beautiful day
and I will look forward to

being back with you tomorrow.

Share some more thinking,
more tools in the toolkit,

and another step on our way
in our 30 day challenge.

I hope you're finding this helpful
and we'll talk again soon.