Fasting Space

What if your biggest obstacle toward
health, toward weight loss, toward

even any goal that you seek in life
could end up becoming

one of your greatest assets
in our health space.

Become your greatest health asset.

Do you know what that obstacle is
when I say it?

Can you think of it? Get it in your mind.

Think about what it might be.

And then we're going to move toward
that thought

with a very interesting story
from this book.

The Obstacle Is the Way by Ryan Holiday.

The subtitle of this book, The Timeless

Art of Turning Trials into triumph.

Do you have a mindset to do it?

Have you struggled in a space?

Are you struggling in a space now
moving toward health?

Do you need to unlock it?

Let us walk on the journey together

both today
and on the channel every weekday.

Here we are stepping forward in health.

I'm Doctor Z if you're new.

Nice to meet you.
So good to have you here.

I am an internal medicine physician,

primary care doctor for many years,
and then started running

a weight management program,
which I have transitioned over the years.

Now full time into a fasting based
medical practice, help people unwind

so much of the metabolic dysfunction
that we are experiencing

in society, in our bodies, even.

All right.

So that's what I'm doing.

Let us dive into it.

So I thought this was fun.

I read this book a couple years ago.

It's not a weight loss book,
but it is a book just about overcoming

obstacles of any kind,
but very applicable to our situations.

Right? We need to overcome obstacles.

Here's the story that he tells here
a paraphrase it a little bit.

He says an old Zen story about a king

who people had grown

soft, they said,
and he was not satisfied with us.

He wanted people to be stronger.

He wanted to inspire them.

And so he placed a large boulder
in the middle of the main road

heading to the city,
blocking entry to the city.

And then he hid nearby,
and he watched the responses to people.

And he spent days,
and he was growing discouraged because

people just walked up to it and they left
and they went somewhere else.

They did something else.

But after several days,
one lone peasant came along his way

and he didn't turn away

and said he strained and strained,
and he tried to push it out of the way.

And when he finally couldn't,
he started thinking.

He scrambled into the woods nearby.

He found a large branch
that he used for leverage,

and he used the leverage to dislodge

the massive rock from the road
beneath the rock.

The king had hidden a purse of gold coins
and a note which said

the obstacle in the path becomes the path.

Never forget that within every obstacle

is an opportunity
to improve our condition.

And then he asks to frame this story.

What is holding you back?

So I loved that story
in a tiny little story.

But and it's, you know,
it's metaphorical.

It's a story. Right?

But the principle
that it is trying to show

hidden within difficulty is great
opportunity.

I was picturing as I was sitting here
before we started the show, I'm trying to

picture the scene, this huge boulders
like blocking the whole city.

Do you ever feel like you're in a space
like that in life where it's like, man,

this thing, maybe you're like the peasant
initially, you put your shoulder into it,

you're giving it all your might,
but it doesn't budge.

And isn't it?

Don't you have compassion on someone
who has in that situation,

say, seems pretty insurmountable?

The picture I was thinking.

I was thinking of a weight loss path.

How this oh, I'm doing this motion.

This is what I've seen so many times.

This is what I'm trying to help
people get out of as much as anything.

Cycles
trying the next thing and the next thing,

and it's like we hit something
for a while.

It doesn't stick.

It isn't sustainable. Simple fasting.

What we are here on this channel,
this process.

I want nothing
but a sustainable process for people.

Take a full and gentle approach
to something

that can be intense, like fasting,

but take it in a very thoughtful space
so that you can ease into it.

Build strength and experience in the body
so that this is a process, a tool.

One of the tools in our weight
loss toolkit

that can serve you for a very long time.

I was picturing,
okay, one of the big barriers.

Tell me what your barriers are.

I'm happy to hear
if you're here with me live.

Throw them in the comments
if you're comfortable sharing.

If you're here on the replay,
leave a comment.

Let me know
what are the barriers that you are facing?

So many it could be
and if you would like a space to move

toward it,
we can definitely do that every day.

Here we are.

I call this problem solving space
no advice,

but it's a space where we can think
together about these things,

and you can take these things
into your life to your medical team,

things like that.

One of the barriers that is common
is that, say

you have been trying to accomplish a goal
for many years.

I'm going to try to lose weight.

And maybe you, like so many other people,
have tried many different ways to do it,

and there are so many different paths
in society today that could be weight loss

paths,
many different pharmaceutical options,

many different supplements
that people take.

Even the supplement industry for weight
loss is billions of dollars,

and many different types
of gyms and workouts and so many people

shouting, everybody saying like,
this is the way, right?

This is how you do it.

And so here on this channel,
I'm trying to be very grounded.

I'm showing you a way, a tool.

I am very encouraged about fasting
have been a great benefit to

my life and I have helped hundreds.

And, you know,
I don't want to hype anything.

I'm sure it's thousands of people,
but I don't track it.

You know, I was tracking it
the first couple years.

And then once we start to hit
hundreds and hundreds, I mean, it just

it was impossible.

And at least in me, okay,
to track it all and

and then running a clinical study,
I should put links to the study.

But you can get it on simple fasting
links in the Wisconsin Medical Journal.

While I was at the university,
did a fascinating study

bringing fasting to type two diabetes.

Help to use it to replace medications.

Probably one of the coolest things
I've ever seen in medicine.

So this is what we're trying to do.

Take these concepts and experiences,
bring them into places and cycles

where it has been difficult in this whole

complex situation of people who

everybody shouting, everybody

know the way, okay, listen,
let's just take the pressure off

of the whole situation
and think a little bit about it.

Boulder that is here.

Isn't this what is so interesting?

One of the interesting things
in this whole situation where we say,

shouldn't it be easier than ever
if we got all the medications,

all the technology, all the knowledge,

and yet still here in this modern moment,

doesn't it feel like it's more difficult
than ever for many people to do it?

Maybe that is your experience

to say, still, we are sitting here
in a space with difficulty.

So all this I was trying to say
in picturing this boulder

heading into the city,

and one of the barriers we can be
discouraged by things that we have tried.

We say, oh, I've tried this, and
I have tried this, and we have tried this.

And we can see from a certain
point of view can feel like

we're accumulating failure.

Have you ever felt that way?

And we can feel bad about it?

What I want to picture
as we're looking at this staircase.

Oh, that's what I was trying to say.
Maybe the boulder is so big.

I was picturing like in the story
they say, oh, a boulder is so big

is like black in the entrance to the city.

I'm like, how big is this boulder?

You know, I don't know,
maybe there's a door.

I don't know, it's a story,
but I was picturing, okay, every time

we are pushing on something like that,
is it like a step on the staircase?

And this is the way to reframe
our past experiences?

Don't feel bad about it.

Realize we have had experiences
in our life that can end up being sources

of strength for us, and every experience

that we've had is built up our knowledge.

Just like the reps in the gym
that are helping us to be stronger,

the building up our strength so that
we can lift the heavier thing right.

This is what our path has been.

Whatever brought us here to this moment,
think of them like stairs.

Maybe we're climbing over that boulder,
you know, I don't know, maybe.

Where's, like the peasant
or got to get into the city.

Maybe this boulder is so big
even the lever isn't moving it.

But maybe we're building a staircase
and heading over it.

I like that idea.

The obstacle becomes
the way I think is a very,

very powerful framework.

That is with us.

How are you doing this morning?

Says plateaus are my barriers.

Yes, this I am sure.

And I know that you are not alone
in this plateau.

Seems my body has adapted to fasting
16 8 or 18 six.

Switch to eating twice a day spaced apart
seems to be slightly moving the scale.

Hey, thank you
for sharing your experience, so

appreciate having you here on the channel
and all your thoughts and reflections.

Plateau space is a
you know, can be a really difficult space

to be in, and I want to help people
reframe that experience.

One of the videos I did, I think,
and I chopped it up into a short to

that is just the idea of base camp.

And I know that we have talked about that
together, climbing up a mountain

and getting to base camp,
and I don't know if we were to come up

with a metaphor
to talk about it, say, base camp.

You say, I've been here long enough,
and then maybe we're frame it

and it can go from being frustrating,
and then we settle in and it's okay.

And is it frustrating again.

So these things can be in a cycle with it.

To really sink into the space.

You know, it's
interesting to be in this space.

If we were sitting in person, of course,
we maybe have a deeper discussion.

It'd be easier to dive in really

to the details of of life
and why things are the way they are.

The thing
that is coming to me right now about it

is just to look at all
four of our practices and like today, like

there's the saying I said the other day,
you know it like when you're a hammer,

everything is a nail.

And so, like, I'm sitting here and like,
fasting is not the only tool

in the toolkit.

And I, I see, okay, fasting is one tool.

It's something that can augment
all of the other practices.

Is it the most powerful tool? Maybe.

You know, it's all of our tools
which are choosing the healthiest,

unprocessed foods and dialing that in,
in like the appropriate amounts

that are right for our situation,
our movement practices.

How active are we throughout the day?

Not just on an exercise program,
but how much movement are we getting?

And then the mindset,
these are all the things.

And that mindset being specifically
the journaling, the meditation,

the breathing, like all of these things,
sometimes in a metabolic space,

in a stuck space, it's like, oh,
think of like picking a lock.

You know how you pick a lock.

You got to get in through
all the spaces, hit

the little trigger points in there
so that the key can turn.

And I really like unlock for a space
in a plateau.

To me
it's a puzzle, frustrating as that can be.

Say, okay, we are here is a puzzle,
there is a solution to it.

So there's something to think about.

And do you believe that
that was the session yesterday.

Step one is the belief, right.

Because we are trying to create
a self-fulfilling prophecy for ourselves.

Got to believe it.

But then step two we have to figure out

what is the specific action that it is.

Maybe fasting a part of that, probably.

But what part?

And this is the balance to figure it out.

And what part does it all play?

I think you have like a lack picking tool.

It's like those little pins
or whatever that go in.

Maybe you got four of them going in.

That's at least the type of pick
that we are using on this process.

The journal to me is like the decoder

of the situation to say,

if when we open up a reflection space

that is big enough, open enough,

and the thought that you want
to be coming into that space,

like where is the energy flowing
like from the body?

Body wants to solve this problem.

I really believe it.

Body doesn't
want to be stuck in a plateau.

Body wants to.

Everything in the body wants you
to accomplish the goal that you have.

We got the top layer.

That cortical layer is like just
what is synthesizing everything else.

Set that intention.

And you know,
I would ask personally the body

a question like, hey, what do you need,
you know, to do this?

Look at the goal.
Look what we are trying to accomplish.

We are in this space having grace
for it, recognizing plateau better

than what many people are experiencing,
which is like anti plateau.

Like plateau never even happened. Okay.

It's like making sure that we

keep ourselves in a grounded space,
recognizing that this is okay.

Body can bring us into a space like that.

Though to say like is is the exercise
the path.

Are there spaces, maybe some more detailed
journaling like food journal

to really dial in
what is coming in on this intake?

Can it be changed?

And then another one is just to say, like,
I think that there can be

a space to consider,
just total break on the fasting space.

Like if you need a reset,
nobody needs to feel like,

oh, does it have to be
like a forever thing?

Can you lean harder on the other paths

and give the body
just a space on the fasting space?

It's something
I'm really thinking a lot about lately

is what what is the pattern to it
that is optimal?

But there are seasons to everything,
seasons of things in the body

and the metabolism is dynamic.

It does change and fluctuate.

And, you know, I don't talk a lot
about extended fasting on the.

Our show here.

Whatever we call this our sessions.

Simple fasting.

I say basically fasting within a day
or for a day, just kind of shallow

end of the pool.

How much benefit can we get out of it?

But in a plateau space, I feel like
there can almost be two doors out of it.

Certainly, an extended fasting period
does offer the potential to break through

a plateau, but it's not something
I ever really recommend people to do.

It's like a personal calling.

If someone is like, really called to it
because it is like a very intense thing

to do and more risk comes in
and I'm a very risk averse person.

I say, I try to

say, let's figure out how much benefit
we can get without doing that.

And then but there are scientific studies
that have looked into it,

and I've reviewed some of that,

and it can help us to tease out
fascinating physiology in the body

to one of the things that that shows,
to the best of my understanding,

would read more and more studies on
it are metabolism can be slowed down.

Standard dieting practices are a key way
in our society that the metabolism

gets slowed down and fasting
under some scenarios, especially short

term fasting, intermittent fasting,
so-called help us break out of that.

But it's not forever.

And I've been thinking about okay
is very clear in studies

that I have read of long term fasting,
meaning extended fasting.

Going ten days without eating
the metabolism will slow back down again.

And this of course has many benefits
for long term survival.

It's like we are trying to take the energy
that we have within the body,

make it last as long as possible,
so we can live as long as possible.

Human being a survival machine
can last a shockingly long amount of time.

Okay, look at the look at this pattern
we have.

We're eating little bits of food
frequently okay.

But never fasting.

Metabolism can slow down that.

You can imagine

a version of a survival scenario
where it's like food is running out.

We're rationing it,
trying to string it along the body.

As best I can tell in a scenario like that
is thinking, okay, little bits of food,

food could be running out.

Let's slow down the metabolism,
string things as long as possible

on this little bit of food.

And then when the food
completely runs out,

then we will trip over
and use the body fat.

This is the thing that would help the food
to last as long as possible.

Help us to survive as long as possible.

But then the food runs out.

Okay.

You know, in in the wild.

Alright.

Wild human beings in the past, right?

Dangerous spots,
like all the food is gone.

Got to get more food.

Critical window. Right.

So what are the things that you're going
to have to do, you know, 10,000

years ago in order to get food again
you have to hunt something.

You're going to have to travel somewhere.

You're going to be fishing,
trying to spear something,

digging stuff out of the ground.

You're going to have to be working
to get that food.

And so the body, as best I can tell, out

of a depressed metabolism,
get into a fasting space.

It's like open up the floodgates,
basically use the energy.

Now it's like the critical
message is like, get more food.

Okay?

If that doesn't happen, right, you got to
think, now we're in a really rough time.

Food is out.

Fasting space has happened.
We didn't get more food.

All right.

Now the body is going to be like,
oh man, we got a triage, right?

I do wonder in the intermittent
fasting space

and I've never seen a study about it.

This is something that I really wish
we could see.

What I think would be a very fascinating
study, and in the context of millions

of people struggling with problems
and multi-trillion dollar health systems,

like we should enroll and pay people

to actually go through these scenarios
so that we can watch it.

And, you know, groups of people,
we should have them go on standard diets.

And these studies have been done.

I've talked about that where we can do
basal metabolic

monitoring and watch people's
metabolism slow.

I've never seen a study
that has done that to people.

Right.

Had people go through that experience
and then flipped them on to fasting, okay,

I haven't if anyone can find a study,
I look for it.

You got to piece it together
from other studies.

I'm piecing together

this as much as we can,
but I would like to see in the same people

documenting what are they eating, to
actually see it and then see what happens.

Because the unanswered question in my mind
that I've really come to see

is, can can intermittent amounts
of fasting,

simple fasting like we are doing in
some people at some points?

Can it actually trigger
some of that physiology?

I honestly don't know
the exact answer to that question,

but I am increasingly wondering if it can.

And you know, different people report
benefits from that.

Taking a break for a little bit

on the fasting, leaning in on the diet
and exercise harder for a season.

And can that help with a plateau?

Some people report that it can.

My experience

I have experimented with this

in my own practice with people
who are interested in doing it, and.

Results are mixed.

I would say results are mixed with it.

Results are mixed.

You know, also, you know, in this space.

So it's like this is the fork where it's
like, do we lean in harder on the fasting?

I'm hearing that you're saying
like maybe the energy wasn't quite there

trying to bring it back. See,
I think that's very positive.

Don't always have to crank things in one
direction when we're bringing things back.

This is the thing that I'm thinking
through to with you now.

Don't feel arbitrarily like you say, oh,
we can't go all the way back to three.

Like I think a lot of times people say,
oh, I'm, I've cranked in a two,

I've cranked it all the way to one.

Maybe I've even done some alternate
daily fasting, like, don't feel bad.

Like just to reset things here.

But I have seen
this is a cautionary point.

I definitely have seen

people do that without counterbalancing it
on the other parts of the path.

And then of course, you know
you can undo some progress that way too.

So I like slow movements.

I like changing things in a thoughtful
sort of way.

I like keeping an eye on things.

Now I'm I'm kind of a data guy sometimes.

I like keeping an eye on things.

Other people not, you know, like that,
you know, and so.

Whatever feels like the energy is flowing.

Right.

I encourage you,
that's the space to think about it.

If you're not like a scale person,
if you're not an Excel spreadsheet person,

like it's okay,
but like move back in a direction

and then if you're not like analytical
like that, then you got to be more of

like a feeling it, you know,
which is totally good.

Is the energy feeling good?

You know, can you switch
in, take a break on the fasting space

a bit, but leaning in,
you know, really low carb,

every process thing out,
you know, and leaning into the movement.

We're just trying to create energy flows
in the body, you know.

And another
thing to think about in that space,

if we're leaning hard in on the

food choice path, right,
we're trying to balance out everybody,

all of us getting some fasting space
in a day, some eating space, really.

We're just trying.

I am here trying to have a broader
discussion about the fact that, okay,

our society has arbitrarily said that

like the fasting space
can never go beyond 12 hours.

Like as long as you're up,
you got to be like eating basically.

And I'm just like,
no, it's just like, open that up a bit.

I right now I'm writing,
I don't know, like 6 or 7 different talks

I have,
I haven't quite finished them all out.

But one of the talks is
I don't know what I'm going to call it,

but it's basically there is a
well-documented medical phenomenon

that is in fasting that is,
at least for some people,

where fasting will trigger

overcompensation of eating.

And so in I think this is one of the big
barriers that fasting faces in medicine,

especially as we get into talking
with nutritionists about fasting.

Nutritionists know all about this,
especially people who are working.

I've interacted with a lot of nutritious

nutritionists
working in eating disorder clinic.

Right.

So people struggling with binge eating
sometimes do have to eat more frequently.

It's like you space it out,
and it can be one of the triggers

that cause people to eat more.

Now in literature, not to dive too deep.

Let me know
if people want to dive deeper into it.

Anybody who is not trained in fasting,
who is.

Confronted with a fasting interval,
especially if it's unplanned.

But even if it's planned,
we'll eat on average

20% more at the next meal that they have.

Then they would have
if they had eaten the other meal.

So there is this fasting propensity
toward a fasting induced compensation.

But it's not, you know, 100%.

It's like a little bit in most people.

And so sometimes
this is more reflecting on a plateau.

Sometimes I've worked with people
and say, okay, I've worked all the way

up to that.

I'm having one meal a day.
I lost some weight.

But now, okay, now there is a plateau.

And they're like, no, I really I'm
not eating anything in this space.

I'm trying to get active,
like what is happening.

Sometimes I dive in.

I'm like,
what is actually happening at this meal?

And sometimes it turns out that
that meal is really big out.

You know, people
eating over 2000 calories in one meal.

And this is something that I don't think
is a positive or helpful thing to do.

People basically take in three meals
worth of food

in their own
mad and pushed it all into like one space.

And so that's something
that I just want to highlight.

Maybe we do a whole talk on.

It is just to recognize, okay,
when we're in a space

balancing fasting and eating okay,

fasting, we're taking something
that we would be eating.

We're not eating it anymore.

This is the big idea in our space and
in medical literature, different spaces.

People define this differently.

There's a real gray area to me
when when we're looking at time restricted

eating specifically,

which we say is just having eating windows

and and then what we would
what I would call actual fasting.

And some people use these things
interchangeably.

I, I don't know about it, I think and by

I don't know, I mean, I just kind of think
that we shouldn't do it.

I think time restricted eating
needs to be more fully separated from what

fasting is,
because most of the clinical studies

that I've looked at that are just
specifically time restricted eating.

Many of them are called like ISO caloric,
meaning like same calories,

like we put the same amount of calories
in a tighter window.

Maybe we eat three meals between 10
and 4, like we're putting bonus meals.

And so we're getting the same calories.

Like there's another common
criticism of fasting.

People say, well, fasting

is just a process
to help you eat less calories.

And since it's hard,
why would you ever do it

when you could just eat fewer calories
and get the same results?

And what I would say to that
I don't argue too hard about that.

I think it really is a strategy to eat

fewer calories, and if that's all it is,
I would still be just as excited about it,

because it isn't exactly easy
to eat less calories.

And many people,
at least for the right people, using

fasting is a way to eat fewer calories
is a very helpful tool in the toolkit.

Absolutely.

But there is more to it, and the hormones
are complex, and fasting space

does offer the opportunity
to get into some hormone altering space.

I think a big thing is that my best

interpretation of the data
and the experience is just that.

These can be effects
that are harder to capture

within a couple of weeks
of a clinical study.

And I think we're not really

defining things and practicing
the way things really should be done

when a lot of studies are studying fasting
but people aren't getting less calories,

then we're not really studying

the thing that I think it is.

And so this is the sort of space
to dive into with it

then, is to realize,
okay, fasting time is important.

Eating windows are important,

but it doesn't mean that calories
don't have any meaning.

And so the

the portions would be another factor
to look into.

Like if we take the standard view of it
and we say,

okay, calorie is all that matters.

And fasting is something that helps
you eat less calories.

Well, like let's just make sure
we're actually getting less calories

too, because.

Because if we are opening up
the fasting space,

but putting all those calories into there,
it can still make a difference.

But it is certainly not as powerful
in intervention

as if we take those meals away
and then keep the other ones static.

You know, in my view,
if somebody is eating, you know, like

before we started a weight loss process,
we were eating 1800 calories a day.

And we say, you know,
you think maybe it's at six and then six

at lunch and six at dinner,
or maybe it's skewed and it's like,

you know, four and six
and eight or something like that.

You know, I think, okay,
now we're taking out the breakfast.

We don't want to just plug
those calories into dinner

like we do want the calorie deficit.

Still, that is what is getting into
more of a pure fasting space.

To me, it's like the windows are opening

up, the total calories are less,

the content of the meals
is really dialed in

and you say, well, there is the challenge,
right here is the challenge.

And like
I was saying about some of this complex

physiology is getting deep
into our emotional mental space,

especially like you can see
the propensity can and I can feel it.

I've done that
sometimes I've done big fasting.

We say okay and we want to ease into it,
but then it can be hard.

And I've had times where I've over eaten
after fasting, and that is

something that needs to be acknowledged
and practice.

Just like getting into it,
getting into a fasting it's challenge

and getting out of fasting
its own challenge.

And maybe they're equally important
because we don't want to undo the benefits

of what we have done
by getting into a very thoughtful

fasting space,
and then undo it by overeating later.

And if you're struggling
with something like that, then

that is another space where you say,
let's just bring back the intensity of it.

And this is what I want to do in this talk
that I'm writing is like,

there's there's kind of like
a lot of force always to be hitting things

harder and harder
and always ratcheting things up.

And I think they're really
can be a lot of benefit from just,

you know, on a ratchet.

Have you used a ratchet
where you can hit that little thing?

It's like where the ratchet
ever gets stuck on a bolt.

It's like, just take the pressure
off, do that release, go the other way,

take the pressure off.

Everything about my process for fasting,
I want it to be about using it

as a tool to take pressure off,
never creating its own pressure.

Everything about it should be a wellness
practice that feels like a flow state

and and using it to help that.

Experience
flow into the other areas of life,

like our meal prep and our exercise
and every other

good thing to me,
every facet of our being in health.

We can put them in
these arbitrary containers, but

really, it's just one holistic experience.

Got to bring it all into balance.

So you say, okay, here's here's something
maybe I haven't spent a whole lot of time

talking about on the channel,
but portion control, portion sizing.

To me, this is taking us

especially into a mindfulness space
because you say can be very difficult.

Right.

And I think this illustrates one of the
key benefits actually of fasting.

But it's just it's it's
bringing it all into a focus.

We were discussing,
you know, this perspective on fasting.

Say why would I practice

fasting if, if a big part of it
is just getting less calories?

It's like it's very hard to eat less
when you're eating all the time,

because when we're eating, we want to eat
like a nice satisfying portion.

You no body is designed.

All the hormones
designed to process a meal.

Think about the size of the stomach
is like perfectly

sized for like the size of meal.

That is, you know,
the system is designed to operate off of.

And so it's like we eat
a little bit of food.

We have to turn the digestive system
on, takes 20 minutes

to crank up, you know, all the acid
pumps and hormones and all these things.

It's like doing that for like 50 calories,
you know, we just have a snack.

It's like now the system is turned on
and it's like, where's the rest?

And then it can set up
these cycles of hunger.

One of the big benefits of fasting space
is like we start to program the system,

say, actually,
we are just someone who eats at this time

and this time,
and that can take a few days

to even a couple of weeks
to really dial in.

That's one of the benefits
of staying in a routine.

And that's another thing to be mindful of.

If we're shifting around these things,
say, are we leaning back on fasting a bit?

Just recognize, okay, now
we're kind of communicating to the body.

Maybe we're eating

a little more frequently,
maybe that's good for a season and it is.

But just recognize
like we're seeing the other day, shifting

gears, going to shift
back into that space, fasting.

If we're shifting out of it for a while,

just recognize
take a little bit to shift back into it.

But this process is showing us. Okay.

If we can see eating

six mile meals throughout the day,
here's like a standard dieting thing.

We're trying to take our calories
from 2000 all the way down to 1400

by breaking up into seven tiny

little segments like,
have you ever done anything like that?

It's like a little shake,
a little bar, a little thing.

Like, how satisfying is that?

You know, most people are missing
the meals pretty quick.

And so if we take that idea,
you eat one Pringle chip

probabilities went way up that you're
going to eat the whole stack, right?

I know what it is for me. I know it is.

But you eat zero of it,
you flow through it.

Okay, now we get to the meal

and it's like the same sort of physiology
as the snack, but bigger.

It's like now the food's really good now
we spent and now there's like a lot of.

And it's a meal and it's okay to eat.

Like, how do we bring that into the
most thoughtful space to me mindfulness.

You say okay, but I'm hungry now.

Now I'm really hungry now,
how do we dial into this space?

Especially if you're struggling with it,
if you're not struggling with it, right.

If everything is working well, no problem.

Okay, we say this here's the obstacle.

I get to the meal when I'm eating now
and I'm very hungry

and I'm experiencing this,
and then it's hard not to take it

beyond the spot where it is serving
the process.

I think that's the spot. Here
we are in this section.

I made the silly picture
thanks to an AI tool

where
I put a pile of gold coins in the hand.

Okay.

Think about how valuable is it
to gain control.

I want people to have total control over
food.

I do not want people
to be controlled by food

and the emotional experience of eating
and these sort of things.

To me, that is more valuable
than a fistful of gold,

because this is the process
that is actually leading us toward health.

And isn't health more valuable than money?

Right?

If we don't have our health, wouldn't
we spend

just about everything
we could possibly have?

So get it back.

Health.

Something we really take for granted

till we're not experiencing
the level of it that we want.

And then we say we would pay money for it.

And many ways to do that
for certain things in health care.

But here in the metabolism,
metabolic space can't buy a metal.

You know, metabolism
is something that you have to do.

Metabolism is actually
the doing of the body.

It's just the collection of the running
of all the energy systems.

And so our unlocking process, figuring out

how do we do this life, this experience

in a way that helps the energy
to flow around through the barrier, say,

move the barrier out,
find the hidden treasure.

Okay, maybe that treasure
is really getting into this exact space.

How do we control this experience?

How do we bring it under control,
at least more under control?

Getting to a space.
Let's say it's a struggle.

The portion control is what we're trying
to dial in on right here in this session.

How do we do it?

Mindfulness, I say, is the key to it.

There's really leaning in on that fourth
path, our mindset

journaling about it, specifically
setting the intention to it.

Realize here, okay, look at the journey
we've gone on through this session

to get to these thoughts where we say,
okay, give space, listen to the body.

What are we trying to accomplish?

Set the intention.

Maybe this is a spot where we've come to.

Maybe you are seeing like,
oh, I could be more mindful the portions.

This is where we could dial in.

Recruiting everything
in our being to help us

with this, using every tool
and resource that we have.

So maybe that means starting out
ahead of dinner with our goal.

What is my goal on this meal
in this session?

What would be an ideal amount
that I want to eat, and

how can I help that to be both satisfying?

And how can I be satisfied with that?

As we're starting
to bring mindfulness to it ahead of time,

it's like we're preparing ourselves
for it.

We can.

Maybe we picture ourselves eating it
and we see the experience say, here's

an amount of food that is reasonable
for what I'm trying to do.

Maybe it's around 600 calories.

It'd be ideal plus or minus, you know,
depending on the meal or the experience.

Probably not 2400, right?

We're not trying to blow it out,
probably not even 1200

if we're really trying to go on a weight
loss process, see some tasty,

satisfying portion of food, and then bring

every mindfulness practice into it.

Use all of our senses to eat it right.

Slow it down.

The sensors we have
sensors is what it think of taste.

We don't think of

this as making it sound kind of robotic,
but taste is like a sensor.

If this was a mechanical system, it's
communicating information to the body.

And we have sensors like this
throughout the digestive system

all the way into the small bowel,
even telling us

what food is, where
and how is the body processing it.

And it takes time
for all of these things to work.

And so when we slow down,
we increase the amount of space

that the nutrients
will bring into our body,

that they can be hitting the sensors,
that we can be tasting

and smelling and experiencing
and feeling the food coming in

is telling the body the energy is here.

We're hitting the society hormones.

And if you eat the same amount of food
more slowly versus the same amount faster,

you know what
the experience is going to be.

Where are you going to be more satisfied
when you finish it?

Right when you slow down,

you give the body
the experience to get into that space.

So do that. See the food coming in?

This is the sort of thing, I think,

when we are shutting the screens off
at mealtimes.

Highly recommended.

Turn every distraction off
and actually look at the food.

None of this, right?

Like when we're watching a show

and the food is coming
in, that's like a big cue to the body.

Think of the sensors here actually
seeing the food come into the body.

This can make a huge difference
to actually see it coming in.

Now the body is like really knowing in
like another way, not just tasting it,

but like seeing it coming in bodies,
getting the message he energy's coming in.

We're going to be satisfied here.

Things are going to be okay hearing right.

Just spending

some people I know when I talk to people,
they hate the sound of chewing, okay.

But it's like if it's your thing,
you know?

But like hearing it like,
oh man, I was like

this hearing or swallowing it, man,
this is really coming in.

All of these

are sending information to the body
about how much food is coming in here.

So as I'm thinking through this, okay,
one of the things I love about fasting,

a way to eat less
without having to dial in and say calorie

can calories and portion control and dial
so in on it.

And I see that's really good.

As long as everything is working
here, we're in a very specific subset

of the experience, right.

Working through a plateau.

Maybe if we have flowed through
this whole experience,

maybe this is the place where it's time
to bring some of that back to,

to be a little more analytical
on the portions.

Exactly how many

calories really are coming in here,
if we're really think about it,

if the if the fasting space not flowing
through it, like because a calorie is real

and if what if it comes out that's like,
yeah, we're getting fasting space.

But look the calories still pretty high.

Like, is it reasonable to expect

dramatic results from a fasting
if the total calories aren't reduced?

I'll just tell you this is more subtle.

Take a lot longer to get there.

And so if we're trying to dial
in the intensity,

pay a mind to total portion.

Somebody asked me the other day
I was talking with a doctor,

what do you think is the biggest myth

in the weight loss space?

So I think, well, this is a very
thoughtful, thought provoking question.

And so I sat around and thought about it
for a little bit and what I came up with.

I'd be happy to hear your perspective.

Let me know what you think.

What I came up with is that this is easy,
I think is the biggest myth.

As I was thinking about it, everybody
think of the multi-billion dollar,

many, many, many multibillion dollar
weight loss industry.

Isn't the entire thing
isn't the marketing for all of it?

Just that this is easy.

Do my path and it's easy on everything.

If you watch the happy people
dancing around,

you know, on the commercials,
easy street, right?

Just.

And everything is easy
just to supplement.

It's the missing.
Everybody's got the missing thing.

It's like, oh, you didn't
you didn't know it this whole time.

You could have just taken my supplement
order.

Now, three easy payments in 1995.

Easy.

But really,
there's just nothing really like that.

And the thing I don't know, maybe.

Do I do some of that?
You let me know. Honestly.

Do I do some of that
and how would I not do it?

The thing that I try to balance,
you know, fasting of all things,

of all weight loss paths, I think is
the thing that is most feared in society.

It's the thing that out of all paths,
people would say is the hardest,

or the thing that everybody does
not want to do the most.

I know that's how I felt about it.

The first time I heard about it.

I met the wonderful Hindu woman
who is just fasting all the time.

That was my first gut reaction.

I was like, well, I don't want to do that.

Oh man.

And look, look at me now.

But what a blessing it is.

And so I think that's
why I'm drawn to this book.

The Obstacle is the Way.

I really do like it.

To bring it back to where we started.

Can the obstacle ultimately
become a great source of strength?

That's what this book is about.

And that's what fasting is to me.

To me, like the metaphor of it,

it it is not even a metaphor, really.

It's just totally.

It is the way.

Body fat is here to serve us.

It is part of us.

It is energy,
and the body does know it is there.

And so unlocking it, okay,
there is a path to do it.

Fasting space is one of those paths here
we have done some deep

thinking and more deep
thinking deserving of it, about

whether we have one constant plan
all the time.

I've definitely seen people who lean in
even on two meals a day,

and they just flow through it
for years and years,

and they don't hit so much of a plateau.

But then I've seen people even harder
in Omi

and beyond who's like,
do experience that for times.

My experience with fasting
over a multi-year period of time is people

who are leaning into a process of fasting
at least 16 hours, maybe longer,

maybe some Omi
who flow into a plateau space

it usually who stick with it.

It usually resolves to the downside.

So usually I've seen definitely people
flow through a space

for longer than you would want,
and we work through it.

And then I've seen finally
the unlock happens.

And of course
we want to do every bit of optimization

to minimize the amount of time that have
people have to spend in a space like that.

But I think part of it, too, is I think
what is happening right here is a process.

When we see a static number
and it's not changing,

you know, we're very numbers focused.

We want the number to be changing.

Many things can be happening under
a surface and in the body and the mind.

A process is happening.

What that process is can be different
for different people,

whether that's actually
a metabolic process,

whether it's an emotional process, whether
it's just a period of time of learning.

Think of a beautiful butterfly, right?

Think of the time in the cocoon.

That's the other metaphor
that I really like.

Base camp
can be a really helpful metaphor.

The other one is the cocoon, right.

I tend to think that the experience

of the caterpillar in the cocoon
probably not

very pleasant, you know, wings busting out
and all this stuff

might be very difficult,
painful type of experience.

Not very many people have just innate
patience of a saint.

Only a few. Right.

And then they become like the,
the saintly ones with the patience

the rest of us got to work
through processes to, to help and support

and give ourselves every bit of grace
and compassion and tools and support

to make up for our lack of patience.

Absolutely.

But this is what this process is.

This is fasting space to me. Right?

And this is why I decided to put it
every weekday,

say just working the process,
working the problem.

Try to keep learning and doing
the thinking and sharpening the edge.

Right?

If we're trying to cut
into a difficult space, sharpen the edge.

And, you know, I would say
I feel like the

the journey with it so far,

I feel like is doing that.

I have a lot more language tools

now by doing this process than I did
two years ago, which I'm very happy about.

More ways of thinking
to help us navigate this issue.

To me, I think this type of issue
navigating a metabolic space,

not running away
from the very difficult spaces of it.

I've especially like leaning into this
thing like we're seeing with the myth.

What is the biggest myth in weight
loss today?

That it's easy.

Everybody who is trying to sell everybody
something is trying to do it

by telling people my way is the easy way,
and I am trying to be in a space

where I'm not trying
to sell really much of anything.

I sell some consulting time.

If you're in Wisconsin,
you want to chat in person.

I would love to connect.

I have my doctor's method.

If you have type two diabetes,
definitely check that out.

If you know friends or family
who have type

two diabetes, you can access doctor
Z method anywhere in the world.

My personal consulting is primarily
just in Wisconsin, but doctor

Z method is everywhere.

It's awesome
and we can connect on there anywhere.

Really,
really helping people in that space.

But I'm not trying to use a marketing

to tell anybody that it's easy in my view.

The thing I've been thinking

also, okay, it's not like my marketing
is radically successful either.

Sometimes I kind of sit around
and laugh at myself and say, like, what?

What do you expect?

Do you sit here and say,
hey, come lose weight with doctor Z?

It's going to be difficult.

It's not the vibe
that I'm trying to set up.

The vibe that I just want
is reality, right?

I try to make everybody's experience,
especially you, come work

with me in person.

I try to help

you have the most thoughtful, pleasant,
enjoyable experience possible.

I want it to feel like openness
and joy and positivity.

Okay, that's the goal.

Minimize every bit of struggle, but never.

Anything other than reality, right?

Nothing sugarcoated,
nothing exaggerated or hyped.

And the reality is that a
a weight loss process by any path

is a fairly long
and difficult process, right?

Even you say, I'm
going to try to take a shortcut.

I'm going to go get a lipo
at a plastics clinic.

You say, okay, also difficult okay.

Also painful.

So and not necessarily sustainable,
you know.

Choose the hard.

And from my perspective
what I've come to, you know,

how long have I been in medicine since
I went to medical school was year 21.

I think it must be.

The thing that people fear the most
actually may be one of the easiest paths

in the long term, to just accept,

to recognize the deep
physiology of the body.

Fasting is here
had been practiced for thousands of years.

People say, well, fasting is a fad.

You know, like maybe fasting in certain
small niche areas on YouTube.

Okay, this fasting videos,
millions of views.

Okay. People have written
1000 books on fasting.

That's fine.

But when you look at the impact
on society,

minimal, minimal, you know, it's like it's
been in his own little area.

But then so you zoom back.

You say people have been practicing
fasting for thousands of years.

You can go back and read Hippocrates,
and he's talking

about the healing
potential properties of fasting.

People have recognized
the value in this for so long.

I was having coffee with a friend
the other day and

they were talking about,
I don't want to be too

denigrating to myself and certainly
every beautiful person who is with me.

I just love that
we're here together in this space.

Small is beautiful.

That's what I say.

I really do believe
that things don't have to be big.

We're sitting here in this crazy
moment of industrial culture

and AI systems and just everything
kind of like intense and edited.

And, you know,
I really feel good about sitting here,

have a coffee, chill, little space,
a few people.

It's like friends
sitting around in a coffee shop.

This is just kind of like the vibe I want.

I don't doesn't
have to be any bigger thing.

But my my friend thought it did.

And they're like, it's kind of sad
that you are spending all this time doing,

you know, your your show
and like not too many people watching,

I'm like, hey, it's like totally cool.

They're like, you really missed the fad.

Like, you should have been doing this,
you know, 5 or 8 years ago.

Like when you were launching the study,

you should have launched a YouTube channel
instead of doing the study.

They were telling me all this stuff.

I'm like, I don't know, eight years ago
I did not see myself as like a YouTuber.

I was like a doctor,
you know, in a clinic.

Like it's just not, you know, what you did
and some people did it, you know,

it just wasn't on the mind.

And the thing I was thinking in

that conversation is like,
you can't really miss it.

You know, like fasting is a process
that has been part of culture for

thousands of years.

You can't miss it.
It hasn't gone anywhere.

Like just because we were in some sort of
space where like some people connected

with it in a certain media format
for a while, like, that's no big deal.

Like I don't have any regrets about it
sometimes.

I did have some regrets.

The more I think about it.

I did think about it for a while.

I thought, oh, wouldn't it be nice?

To like,

you know, I'd watch some of these
big people back, you know, 2016.

I've watched Doctor Fung giving talks.

I was like, maybe I should do talks.

I'm giving talks like,
why don't I put them online?

I don't know, too busy.

I was I didn't have very much space
in my own life to really sit and reflect.

I was just kind of do do do do do
could never say no right here.

Fasting has shown me a lot.

It's okay to say no to things for a while.

It's like I was very, very busy.

Okay?

I was running a hospital ward
at an academic medical center

for medical students and residents.

Medical director
and my clinic start a research

program
running a huge primary care practice.

Sometimes because I was so crazy,
I would I would moonlight overnight.

I'd work in the clinic, I'd go work.

Why did I do that?

Oh, man,
the more things I started saying no to,

the more I realize there's more potential
we can.

Things are okay.
Don't have to be striving.

Why was I striving so hard for things
I already had?

Have you ever had an experience like that?

It's actually just opening up the space
and sitting everything that we seek.

Maybe we already have it.

But I do like the idea. Doctor
Z coffee art.

That is kind of a vibe that I want
for this session to be.

It is kind of the vibe.

I do like this look, this set.

I don't know what people think of it.

I like the vibe. Blue, my favorite color.

I'll tell you, blue is my favorite color.

And so I like bringing in the blue.

To me, it's like either sky.

Some of these ideas to me
is like the sunrise on a beautiful morning

is happening here with the blue
and then the golden light coming up.

And sometimes I think

it's like sand on the beach,
because also I love sitting by the ocean.

And to me this might be a sandy beach,
some beautiful beach vacation.

And either one of those things
is like a calm and peaceful vibe,

which is the vibe
that I want to bring to a fasting space.

Fasting space.

I want to be the type of thing
that is taking pressure away from people.

It's like less to do less meals,
less shopping,

less cooking and cleaning and everything,
okay?

And everything

like that, that I just said
that is less to do in the external world.

It's also less to do for the body inside,
less digestion,

less hormones and acids
and all this sort of stuff.

It's like just taking the pressure off,

calling everything down, flow
through a space, more space in our life.

Like I was saying, when I was so strung
out in my medical practice

before, I learned to set boundaries
and say no to things

so that we could say no
to some good things, to

open up some space for some better things,
some of those better things,

actually just mental health, peace
and contentment in the mind.

Whoa.

Do we need some of that?

Same thing happens in the body.

More space in the body.

Give the body a break.

All of a sudden, immune system
doesn't have so much work to do

protecting us from foodborne illness.

All of a sudden,
the lining of the digestive system

has some space to rebuild itself
from all the food processing.

All of a sudden,
the pancreas can take a break.

Don't have to be squeezing out
the insulin, and the liver gets a break.

Everything gets embraced.

Love it. Fasting.

My favorite concept
I've come across in medicine.

So many good things and different strokes
for different folks.

You know, there was a point in time early
on, you know,

toward the end of medical school,
I thought I was going to be an oncologist.

I had my entire life geared up
to becoming an oncologist, actually.

In the whole
first year of my residency, I,

I had time in oncology clinics

and I spent much bonus
time on oncology wards. And.

Sometimes I think, oh, what would life
have been like to have done that?

Doctor Z oncologist?
But I feel really good about it.

And one of the reasons
that I decided not to do that is I said,

I want to really explore the thought of

how do we make ontology
as minimally necessary as possible?

And isn't it the case that if we help
people to be as healthy as possible,

that we will ultimately minimize
the number of people who ever have to

see an oncologist?

And, I think that is certainly true.

And I have had value from that.

One of another one of the talks
I'm working on, a talk on

potential of fasting and fasting
based process to mitigate

at least some amount of cancers.

I haven't given the talk.

I haven't talked about it
because I'm reading,

you know, all of the research on it.

I'm trying to literally read, like
all of the research that I can find on it

and really think deeply about it,
and it's another sort of thing.

I've also watched a fair number of YouTube
videos on the space, and I don't

I don't really like the videos
that are out there

because just like so many things,
you know, there's a lot of hype to it.

And I think this is a space
that is especially in

need of reality based anti hype talk.

And I don't know if that's the type
of thing that very many people ever

watch will see.

But also the research
I think is very poor.

This is my assessment of it.

The bench research is very interesting
to just give you.

I'll give you the current state
of my thinking on it.

For what it's worth,

there's a lot of fascinating
bench research

and animal model studies
that show in the fasting space

what happens when the immune system
can stop all of its work

on food processing
and start doing other things?

One of the things that it can do

is go into cancer, seek and destroy mode,
natural killer cells and other things.

Okay, can start combing through tissues
and looking for anomalous structures.

So many things coming together
in a fasting space.

As cells flip over in a fasting space
that can activate DNA repair enzymes.

Here's an incredible thing cancers
caused by mutations in our genetic code

and in a fasting space, we have mechanisms
in place to help us mitigate that.

Fascinating.

Doesn't that just tell you this is
something the body wants to be happening?

A whole nother area
that has been looked at, physiology in the

tumor,
the tumors are things that have escaped.

They have deviated from all of the natural
control mechanisms,

like they do not stay in balance,
they are energy hungry, they are sucking

up energy and especially glucose,
something called the Warburg effect.

So like they will suck up the energy.

Well, the system is wasting away.

This was happening in cancer okay.

All of a sudden it's like our cells
normally do a fuel system.

They can run off of body fat.

Cancer cell loses that ability.

They're very glucose dependent.

All of a sudden
you start opening up a fasting space.

Processed food is gone.

You are putting a cancer cell
at a radical disadvantage.

And so this is the physiology
in the body called Warburg effect.

Very well studied.

The part of it
that is not well studied is translating

that into actual efficacy in people.

And there are

some studies that have looked at it
in a way that I don't really like.

But I would like to bring you
a talk on it.

A cancer is.

Been probably I don't know what has been
the worst part of,

you know, being a doctor, but

telling people that they have cancer
probably takes the cake, I think.

And just hate it. I just hate it.

And I think that, you know,
in this sort of space

where we are at right now,
biggest obstacle, is it a strength?

This is where we started.

And here I'm just doing some free form
thinking, I guess at the end.

There's a giant obstacle to health, right?

That's like a boulder.

I don't know, maybe our analogy
breaks down with something like cancer,

you know,
but I don't know in the big picture.

We need a lot of thinking on it.

I was driving over from Madison
to Milwaukee the other day.

Giant billboard on the highway

for Milwaukee based
Hospital Cancer Center.

And what exactly were the words?

It said something like.

Was it doing whatever it takes, whatever

it takes until every cancer is prevented?

It was something like that.

They might have had a little more poetic

word for it,
but I was thinking about the the research

and the physiology into these ways
that fasting interacts with this process.

And I was thinking like, does
whatever it takes to stop cancers?

Would it include fasting
if it was conclusively shown

in some broader studies than we have now?

Right now, we're in kind of like
a very early stage with it, I think.

Like, would that be enough to shift
like some big thinking

in the medical system
to really start appreciating

fasting on a deeper level?

I my feeling personally is that fasting
should have like

a very prominent base
level role in the medical system.

And right now it's

kind of like floating out somewhere
and kind of a niche sort of thing.

And, and people have a lot more connection
with fasting on YouTube

than they do
with the medical system in general,

is my experience,
and I don't think it should be that way.

Yeah.

You know, we're in a very, you know,
a very interesting situation, you know,

in the health care system, in medicine,
whatever it takes that makes money.

That's the caveat.

And I don't know, I have

I have this whole collection of talks
throughout our talk today.

I've talked all different talks.

I'm like writing and working on it.

I have a couple different talks
that I've been kind of writing about,

you know, the about GLP ones, you know,
because, you know, we're sitting here

in this weight loss space and like
GOP ones, like the 800 pound gorilla

sitting in the room because, you know,
I don't know how to describe it.

It's like.

Become like the
the sun, you know, the star.

Everything is orbiting around it.

And, and I think a big part of

that is just the money of it
is so unbelievable when you dive into it.

So much money.

And I have just complex feelings
about it.

You know, I think.

I think on the channel I could make,
I could I'm

pretty sure I could make some videos
that would like, do better on my channel

by creating some controversial
sort of content

around GOP ones
because so many people searching for it.

I'm not even opposed to making a
controversial thing, but I'm not opposed.

Just I'm not opposed to medicine.
Like I'm opposed.

Like this comment like,
I wish everything in medicine

did not get boiled down to money
and all the finances.

And I wish that there wasn't the,
you know,

money is a tool,
money is good in health care.

And I don't you want there to be huge
amounts of resources in medicine.

And you think, you know,

I've said a lot, you don't find
an MRI scanner out in the woods.

And you I want, you know, there
to be incredible cutting edge

chemotherapies
that help everybody with everything.

And so huge benefits
to the medical system.

But then you get in a comment like this
where it's like,

especially in our chronic disease state,
I feel like the money

is warping things in a way,
but then it's not all good or bad.

And I think this is where
we can have to just navigate a space.

People can be helped by these products

and also they have their downsides.

These are
these are harder spaces to navigate.

I think if everything is black and white

and cut and dry,
it would be easier in a lot of ways.

I think like you're saying,
thank you for that.

I think
this is what I would really like to see.

This is a big thing that I want to do.

I certainly try to do in my own practice.

I've prescribed
thousands of GOP ones to people.

I never would have done it
if I didn't think that it can help people.

And if it wasn't,
maybe the right thing to do.

And, but also I stopped doing it
because I increasingly wanted

at least to do what I could to
to push the envelope the other way.

I think these things do have their place,
but like, you've got to know

about the food and the fasting
and the movement and the mindfulness.

It's not just a medication
to me, a medication.

If it has the most value,
it would be as a tool to help

you get into a space
to be able to do these other things.

And a medication
going to work so much better

when you put it in a context
of all these other good things.

And so, you know, I don't
I could envision,

you know, videos to say it's like, oh,
the fasting alternative to GLP one.

I started writing that talk.

I do want to give that talk

because,
you know, in the midst of all the money,

like we're talking in medicine,
people get lost.

The people who get lost in
that whole equation are people who either

can't afford these medicines or who don't
want to take them, or who have medical

contraindications to them,
or have had bad reactions to them.

And, you know, the commercials
and the whole Zeit

geist of the situation want to make
everybody think that.

That everything is just perfect
and that the number of people

in this situation is very small.

But just in my observation, personally,
I think it's pretty high.

It's more like in the realm of 20 to 30%,

you know,
which is a pretty big slice of people.

And as like I was saying,
we're all orbiting this massive star.

The phenomenon of these medicines,
like, like,

let's just recognize that there's
this other side of it, too.

And we should not forget about people
who can't take them.

Some of the worst experiences I've had to
I gave GOP

1 to 2 people on two occasions
out of thousands.

Okay, look,
everything balance is not likely,

but it does happen when you're running
a huge medical practice

and giving these things to so many people,
rare events will happen.

And but two people that I gave it to ended
up in the ICU with severe pancreatitis.

One of them almost died and it was just
a horrible, horrible thing.

To me a medicine always.

A risk benefit analysis and.

You know, you get into some complex
ethical, moral decision making,

like how much benefit is worth,
some amount of harm coming to people.

And. To me,
I started to feel like first do no harm.

You know, I did the talk the other month.

Minimalism in medicine.

To me, minimalism
really needs a bigger place in medicine.

Fasting.

To me, minimalism in the body first
Do No Harm is like a core foundational

guide guiding light for me.

And this is how I ended up
at fasting space as the

the place to really lean into.

I was a big weight loss medicine

prescriber, and I leaned very much into it

because, you know,
this is the way according to the system.

And I said, you know what?

Let's lean back a little on this
because I don't ever want

to, you know, it's
not like I directly hurt someone.

It's like, not like, see, doctor
Z did not intentionally give this person

pancreatitis by prescribing them
a GOP one, but it still happened.

You know, I was still involved in it,
and I never want that to happen again.

And so I say from a principle, first,
you know, harm,

that's why I'm sitting in this space.

Now, how do we get way upstream.

Like there's things
how do we look at the evidence

rationally get way
upstream of as many cancers as possible?

I'm never going to hype anything and say,
oh, we just do some fasting.

Nobody going to get cancer.
It's not like that.

Like the the effects of these things,
you know, are saying, how do we.

Influence it?

You know, shape it,
give ourselves the best probability.

I've been reading a lot of,
you know, studies right now.

The study I just read last week,
it's like cancer rates

going way up in the 30, 40,

50 demographic and where I am.

And I'm like, oh man. Why is that?

And people have a lot of theories.

Some people call it birth cohort effect.

That's what a lot of people think
is most likely that people

being exposed
during developmental years in the past,

something that has caused lasting,
perhaps genetic damage as a birth cohort

effect is why older generations
not being affected the same way

younger generations are.

Okay. So this is like like big issues
here.

This is why,
if you are aware, colon cancer screening.

Recommendations
have been shifted down from 50 to 45.

Right.

Because we're trying to pick up
more of these early aggressive

colon cancers in younger people.

And it's just interesting,
you know, the cancers, colon cancer

especially also reproductive
cancers, thyroid cancer in younger people.

So it's interesting in this space
where we are in

also look at what has been happening
in society.

The metabolic dysfunction that is coming.

Are these having bigger effects on people
than have been appreciated?

The older generations were not exposed

through key portions of their life
to so many of the things,

including the pollution and the PFAS
and the microplastics and just on and on,

and then the genetically modified food
and the life is sate.

And who even knows, like all of the things
that are going on is really there.

So to me, fasting space, one small space
where we can push back against it,

say at least for a period of time,
we are cordoning off this space

and we are protecting the body,
at least here.

And if there is a space
that is in the body

that is about cleansing
and getting rid of things,

okay, fasting can help to do
some detoxifying in the body.

I can't, I can't prove that
it's going to have an impact.

But for my own personal life and self
seems like the type of thing

we might want to start
getting out ahead of a curve.

And utilizing to help people mitigate
some of this as much as possible.

Just do whatever we can do.

Have you have you seen that mean
that's Homer Simpson where he just

he's like standing there
and he kind of shrinks back into the bush

and is like, he's saying something like.

And then people put memes over it
like, man,

this is like the worst day,
you know, ever.

And he's like,
oh, it's it's the worst day so far.

There's a saying in medicine that I've,
you know, had things

things could always be worse,
you know, little dark, a little dark.

But it basically is true.

Things can always,
always be worse in the short term.

So I do think about that.

What is driven, this experience
that we're having of rising cancers

and young people and and actually
is this the tip of the iceberg

actually is what we're seeing,
just the beginnings.

Not that it's
we're not necessarily at the peak bad.

Like things might be getting much worse.

And do we actually need
to be way more thoughtful and proactive

than we're currently being? I feel we do.

I, I have a feeling
maybe there is a space not for or against,

but just guidance to bridge the gap so new

habits are built and an exit strategy.

I think you so much.

Yeah I really love these thoughts.

Exit strategy is the other talk.

I said I was doing two talks
and I think that is really good.

I've been making an exit strategy
talk and.

I think we'll have to do what I do
want to do it.

I want to do all these talks.

I must have listed ten different talks
that I have like, started and.

We'll keep knocking them off.

I'll knock em off the list.

Plenty to talk about, plenty
to think about, plenty to do.

Anyway. These are my thoughts of the day.

Very special shout out to Pat.

Thank you for the engagement here.

Really nice to share this space with you.

Thank you for everyone for being here.

Love to hear your ongoing reflections on
any of the topics we have discussed today.

As you can see,
I have many different talks

and things that are going to be coming
and we will plug those in

as I complete them into our other series
that we're doing, stepping through

thought provoking and helpful books
that are helping us to dial

in our mindset,
strengthen our resolve, renew our spirit.

And I will look forward
to continuing that journey with you.

Have a great day, everybody.